Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

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sinbad
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by sinbad »

Vectrex wrote:As for Unity source, no believes people when they say this but lack of source code in Unity is no where near the problem of other game engines. Unity itself is actually a light component framework with a kick arse editor. All the 'built in' stuff (even the terrain engine) is an external component. Most of the editor tools are external scripts. Your components/code runs at the same level as theirs. So basically it's a bit like complaining that you don't have the source code to 3dsmax
Again, whether this is an issue is entirely down to your needs. If you're approaching it just as a shrink-wrapped tool to make your content (note how this argument also applies directly to every productised tool, 3DS, MS Office, everything), and it's extensible enough to do what you want, then you understandably won't care about source. And actually, 'source' is a euphemism for 'long term control'. When you use a packaged product which is binary only (even just at the core), you give up control of a certain part of your production pipeline in return for something that is probably slicker (simply because when you commercialise something you have more resources to polish it). But you are giving something up - whether you care or not in the situation you're in is the deciding factor.

If you're interested in simply shipping the next product in a 6-18 month window, this is fine and I would blame no-one for choosing Unity in that scenario if they can afford the license, it's great.

If your time horizon is longer than that, if you're trying to create something more strategic with a lot of your own investment, most of the time it's not ok to be so dependent on something you can't control in a pinch. Companies get acquired, fold, decide to change priorities, or change licensing options, and end-of-lines old products regardless of whether your business is reliant on them. I've been caught in this trap before. Unity is really, really great, but it's highly likely that they're aiming firmly for IPO or acquisition in the next year or two - the fact that they received $5.5M from Sequoia Capital last year (which no doubt helped fund the growth in their dev team and buying in tech from Beast/Umbra) pretty much guarantees that - VC's don't invest this much in an organic growth model. So who knows what the situation will be in 3 years - remember what happened to Project Offset, Renderware and several others when they were acquired? Again, if you're looking to deliver product in the shorter term this is absolutely no issue and it shouldn't concern you, but what I'm saying is that there are plenty of people with a longer term view than 'What can I make my next game in fastest'. Those are the people I'm personally focussed on, and really have always been focussed on, because they're the best fit for our model.

Open source works best as an infrastructure component, not a shrink-wrapped product - the business model for giving away a finished game creator tool just doesn't stack up. There are lots of people with strategic goals of their own involving a 3D render component though - that's where collaboration and open source works, a give-and-take, sharing of resources approach. People looking for short-term quick-fixes probably shouldn't be using open source, it's always focussed on the long rather than short term.
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by dodongoxp »

yeah, sinbad couldn't have said it better..and agree completely with him

i personally use unity right now because im currently in the sector of quick and fast productions, but i have always been a fan and follower of ogre3d, and i think i eventually will use it for something in the future as i did briefly in the past.

in the case of a long term commitment to a future big serious project, ogre surely will be a better option than tools like unity or other similar tool
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by Evak »

BTW I hope I didn't come across as critical of Ogre. I am a HUGE fan. Our team spent 2 years making a game framework and engine, paid almost $1000 on probably the best 3ds max exporters for any engine, bests unity hands down. I still use Ogre when I can find paid artists contract work using Ofusion or Ogremax.

My reason for changing was simply that I find I can't afford to rely on coders working for a share of profits when I'm married and have a lot of responsibilities. My coding ability barely enables me to use Blitz basic. I can make a function or two, know what variables are, and can just about edit a web page :).

Those skills plus my 10+ years as a 3d game artist were all I needed to start up on my own with unity. I mentioned the drag and drop coding nature earlier. What this means is that i don't have to set up a graphics window, inject input etc. To start with all I need to know is how to write a function, understand variables, updated, fixed update etc. And can build my game one function at a time, drop it on the object that inherits its behavior, make sure it all works and then rework it later, consolidating separate parts into a proper main program with a DontDestroyOnLoad parent MainGame script with my player, maincamera, and GUI components that remain static through the entire game. And simply load scenes as levels with all their individual gameplay components in.

For someone like me that normally wouldn't be able to create a window and print text to the screen without looking it up. Unity enables me to create a fairly complex game one function at a time.

Of course, I'm using their flavour of .js which simplifies the language enough that a complete novice can pick things up quickly. I have almost finished my first game for a client after a month of work, and previously a month learning the engine and I feel confident that I can be self sufficient and not have to rely on the dedication of others to help me finish a project I've started.

The one thing I do miss is Ofusion, Unity FBX support is currently only so so. The Format itself is quite limited, not supporting instances or materials more advanced than a diffuse texture map. And the most frustrating thing is that unity uses the opposite coordinate system to most 3D apps and doesn't transpose them on import. So there's almost always an extra step that have to be taken either in Max or Unity itself to get you media in. So it's not all rosy on the other side either.
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by BTolputt »

Well, without disagreeing with anything you actually said Evak, Ogre is not really targeted at your use case.

If I understand your requirements correctly, you want a game engine that requires minimal understanding of code that an artist can import their assets into and, through minimal script, put together a functioning project.

Ogre is a code library, necessitating an understanding of "code". It is not a game engine, but a library & set of components you can use in one you code yourself (or have other programmers code for you).

While I understand your predicament and actually endorse your decision, for me it sounds like you are swapping your dependence on coders you meet & work with/for you with the coders at Unity. Not necessarily a bad decision, but not one in which coders (such as myself) would view from the same perspective. For us, Ogre is not a black-box whereas for you - Unity & "Ogre + engine" may as well be one & the same from your understanding of the internals.

Different strokes for different folks; but it is comparing apples with oranges :)
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by jacmoe »

With all due respect, BTolputt: I think Evak is well aware of that.
So you're just wasting your time stating the obvious. :wink:
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by Praetor »

Thanks for the thought evak. Not being much of an artist I haven't used oFusion before. Nice to hear it is so advanced. I've been tinkering with both unity and the udk cause I like to see what is out there (when i have any time at all).
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by BTolputt »

jacmoe wrote:With all due respect, BTolputt: I think Evak is well aware of that.
So you're just wasting your time stating the obvious. :wink:
With all due respect, jacmoe, the forum is read by many people - not just Evak ;)

Were it a PM, it would not bear mentioning, but it's a public discussion in which there are probably more lurkers than participants. Stating the obvious is done on a relatively frequent basis when it comes to this subject, once more isn't going to harm anyone 8)

Post-Script: Not dissing anyone, just a humorous aside to the fact that this subject (or ones like it) pop-up relatively frequently for something as "obvious" as this. I think it's obvious too, but I'm not everyone!
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by chaosavy »

I think its great that both Unit and Ogre exist, looking at the gamedev forums there are many artists that are looking for coders, it sounds like Unity is a way for some of them to show that they are serious about their projects to potentially attract a team member or at least accomplish something on their own. At least to have a taste of their dream.

Also as a tangent, its always interesting for me to hear something like: "I can't code, and can't learn" (not attributing this to Evak, rather at the larger dreamer community). At the same time it is very difficult for me to picture and realize a 3d shape/object when it comes time in blender to create some programmer art.
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by Vectrex »

In Evaks case Unity is merely making *coding* as clear and easy as it should be in any game engine. After all, that's why game engines exist, to expose subsystems in a unified (wink) high level way. If it's overly complex then the game engine isn't doing it's job I think.
It also shows how easy and flexible component systems are and in fact, unity's coding is more advanced than most game engines scripting, it just presents the concepts in a clear way. Complexity doesn't automatically mean power, sometimes it just means complex :)
There's an Ogre engine project I'm keeping my eye on which uses Unityesk idea's and it's looking great. Anything good in Unity is merely a simple idea done well, so I suggest anyone with their own game engine have a look at it. An opensource Unity style engine/editor with Ogre would be great. Also using C# through MONO for all the high level coding was a terrific move which should be done more.
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by anpd »

I didn´t like working with Unity at all, there were some design choices I didn´t agree with and the scripts sometimes didn´t refresh after they had been alterd. I haven´t tried the latest version so these problems might be gone. It´s nice for prototyping though.
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by helloween »

I just spent one year working on a commercial project with unity3D.
I will never do it again.

I don't know where to start from, people seems to stop their choice on the editor.
Ok their editor is great but that's the only thing, it's a prototyping tool for level designer, not a game engine. Once you get into the code you understand how limited the library is. Most of the time you are stuck trying to implement something simple until you realize you simply can't.
Performances are bad, there is no hardware skinning and there is no way to implement it on your own. You want to implement you own terrain system ? good luck, you will spend more time trying to cheat unity than making a complete new engine.
PhysX is there; well you have cubes and spheres (and even clothes!!); great but as soon as you want specific interactions with physx; you can't.
You like the editor ? well you are lucky; you are absolutely stuck with it; the engine IS the editor; you cannot render elsewhere, you cannot use the library without it.
You want to make tools in the editor? You have a great choice of GUI components for it, Buttons, text boxes, int and float field, there is no callback on UI, again good luck; just to make a simple tool.

To sum up we have spent most of our time discovering day by day all the things we could not do and all the tricks we had to do to implement our gameplay. There is still so much to say...

I am pretty sure it would have been much faster to develop it with Ogre. Even if there is no editor; I know it is possible to make one quickly in .NET; specialized for your own app; like Torchlight did.
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by spacegaier »

helloween wrote:I am pretty sure it would have been much faster to develop it with Ogre. Even if there is no editor; I know it is possible to make one quickly in .NET; specialized for your own app; like Torchlight did.
There is Ogitor which is in still in development but on a really good way and can be highly customized with your own plugins to meet your application's needs.
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Re: Unity Vs Ogre. graphic comparison

Post by koirat »

A have heard a very good words about unity editor. Is there any possibility to use it's editor for Ogre projects.
Is the unity scene format readable/usable ?
And what about licensing ?
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