GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Discussion of issues specific to mobile platforms such as iOS, Android, Symbian and Meego.

Future of OpenGL ES 1.1 in OGRE 1.8

Keep it
34
49%
Remove it
36
51%
 
Total votes: 70

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masterfalcon
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GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby masterfalcon » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:45 am

The world of mobile computing has been evolving pretty rapidly. The future directions of both mobile and desktop graphics API's appear to be moving away from fixed function to all shader based. And it seems that all current devices have support for GL ES 2. In addition, several recent released titles will not work on devices that do not support GL ES 2(Rage, Infinity Blade, for example).

So the question is: Should we remove the GL ES 1 render system from 1.8? The main reason would be to make Ogre easier to maintain. Also, so resources could be focused in fewer places to help keep future development moving quickly.

On the iOS side, this would mean that it would require either an iPad, iPhone 3GS or greater, or iPod Touch 3rd Generation or greater.

Are there any situations where GL ES 2 is not an option? Is there any place where you get better results with GL ES 1?

What do you think? Please vote and add any comments/questions.
Last edited by masterfalcon on Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Put this in announcements to increase visibility.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby DanielSefton » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:38 pm

I wouldn't be so quick to remove it, I mean, if anyone has a small 3D app they want to make with Ogre, it wouldn't be ideal if they were restricted to the latest gen devices (to which, only big graphically intensive games are currently doing). The <2g market is still huge.

The GLES 1.1 render system works fine as it stands, will it really get in the way of 2.0 dev?
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Kafu » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:43 am

I've voted to keep it, but only because - as DanielSefton pointed out - the GL ES 1 market on iOS is still huge. As devices will be replaced, maybe for the next iteration, keeps compatibility with GL ES 1 will be no more an issue.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby syedhs » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:30 pm

I think you can safely drop gl1.x from 1.8. To those who still want to use 1.x, they can still use ogre 1.7.x which is still very good feature wise.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Wolfmanfx » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:40 pm

I also vote to drop it because mobile devices moving really fast forward and also bear in mind that MasterFalcon has to split his time to keep both RS up and running which wont work out in the long run.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Assaf Raman » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:44 pm

What about this idea: leave it for now in the source control - but don't give it out in source releases or any SDK.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby masterfalcon » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:47 pm

Perhaps marking it as deprecated?
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Assaf Raman » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:07 pm

About the same? We can add a "readme-this-render-system-is-deprecated.txt" file - to the render system folder and be done with it.
This way anyone that really needs it - will be able to submit patches to future versions of OGRE.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby masterfalcon » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:13 pm

That sounds like a pretty good idea, since Ogre doesn't really have a deprecation model besides in doxygen comments.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby goshua » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:42 am

don't remove it i guess while it functions
don't work on it, just maintain at the minimum to compile, no new features addition, let people who still need it maintain it, since it should be quite stable now it should keep running properly for a while
considering my own needs i should switch to gles 2 with no prob
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby JVene » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:38 am

The deprecation concept wasn't on the vote list, so I voted to keep it with the caveat that deprecation sounds appropriate.

It's a warning that by 1.9, it would likely be gone, and as of 1.8 - it's frozen (so as to free up time).

That also reflects the state of the market / hardware everyone is supporting (echoing DanielSefton and Kafu).

In 3 years I doubt anything larger than a watch would still have GLES1 :)
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby masterfalcon » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:16 am

JVene, that pretty much sums up what I'm thinking based upon feedback.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby jsding » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:22 am

Please do not deprecate or stop the GLES1.0 render system. I think many mobile game developers like me choose the GLES1 as the main render system to target much more users.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Mind Calamity » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:12 pm

@jsding:

Well, deprecating it doesn't mean it won't compile and be usable, it just means new features won't be added, and GL ES 2 will be recommended to anyone who wants to develop 3D applications for the mobile devices using OGRE.

The mobile devices marked is probably the one that advances the fastest of all, even the computer market don't isn't as fast, come on LG already has a phone with a 3D display, not to mention the multi-core CPUs and the graphic capabilities of the newer generation phones, they're already as powerful as my last PC.

I voted to remove/deprecate it for the reasons I stated above.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby TheSHEEEP » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:49 am

I agree with Mind Calamity, though I also would prefer the deprecated/"no official support anymore"/"Use 1.7 if you want ES 1" way.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Assaf Raman » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:12 am

What devices only support ES 1?
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Kafu » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:33 pm

Assaf Raman wrote:What devices only support ES 1?


I can report for iOS only: iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPod Touch, iPod Touch 2g. But I must admit that, after 14 months since my comment, they are no more a significant target.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Assaf Raman » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:47 pm

November 30, 2011:
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby DanielSefton » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:31 pm

Just to add another point - 1.1 is easier to work with if you're unfamiliar with shaders/Ogre's shader pipeline. And personally I've not had the time to migrate my project to 2.0; when I tried it last year it just wasn't stable enough and it was crashing all over the place. Now it would be a lot of work to convert at this stage. I'm sure it has improved a lot since though.

So yeah: Don't "remove" 1.1 - If you stop working on it, fair enough, but the option should still be there.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby Assaf Raman » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:54 pm

I don't agree, the RTSS give you backward computability to the fixed pipeline.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby masterfalcon » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:24 pm

Regardless, GL ES 1 is staying in 1.8. It's too late in the development stage to pull something that big.
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby DanielSefton » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:56 pm

Assaf Raman wrote:I don't agree, the RTSS give you backward computability to the fixed pipeline.

Hmm, I might try one more time to get it working before launch. If it still feels unstable, I'll revert back, but I will report any problems either way. Last time I got it at least loading at startup if I commented out things like anisotropic filtering and skyboxes, but then after a while of playing it would still crash somewhere deep in ES 2.0 :P
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Re: GL ES 1 in OGRE 1.8

Postby runfrodorun » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:06 am

masterfalcon wrote:Regardless, GL ES 1 is staying in 1.8. It's too late in the development stage to pull something that big.


I'm glad to hear it. I'm all about moving forward, but look at what a lot of companies are doing: I bought a powerbook G4 in 2005 and it was basically useless by 2008 because of the switch to intel...I'd think that apple would drop support eventually, but not that quick. I understand that a lot of people are on the ball for new devices, but I just don't think it's the time for removing old api's yet.
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