duuhh repost from general area, need help education project

A place for employers, project leaders etc to post if they are looking for people to assist with an Ogre-based project. Please only post in this area if you have a _serious_ project proposition for which you already have something to show for.
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woodsmoke
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duuhh repost from general area, need help education project

Post by woodsmoke »

Entropai
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Re: duuhh repost from general area, need help education proj

Post by Entropai »

woodsmoke wrote:duuhh

woodsmoke
If you want real help and are serious about this you need to learn communicate little bit more clearer. So what is that your exactly searching for? Reading your post from the general aree, you're trying to find way to build serious game for educating, but it's kind lacking vital info? Even if you're not really into graphics, making games or similar, you still need to convey you're idea so that people who can get the idea and be interested in.
woodsmoke
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Post by woodsmoke »

HI
Thanks for your kind reply.
Things have been simplified somewhat.
I have bought a membership at Second Life and have worked my way through most of the orientation.
"AS OF NOW".... I think that there are primitives in Second Life which one can use to make "objects".

I have no idea about the capabilites of the rendering proggy in Second Life, but I have seen them in a display.

Apparently, and I may be completely wrong, one uses "scripts" to manipulate them.
Apparently, and I may be wrong, I think one can import whatever one wants into the game also, in terms of importing "standard" graphics.

However, since I ave now actually been in Second Life, I can see that they have a highly simplified interface with which one can interact with objects there.

Because of that, and to get the project going, I think that we could skip building the rooms in a gaming engine, and placing objects in the gaming engine.

I had originally thought of using Second Life as an "attractor" to get people interested and that people would link from the Second Life room to the game.
The reason I keep typing the word room, is that I don't want this to be yet again ANOTHER, classroom that has an old guy in front of it lecturing.
The few schools and colleges that have attempted to do something in Second Life have basically moved a brick and mortar classroom to a flat panel monitor.

I have a truely different "way" for students to learn and for the teacher to teach. Suffice it to say that the reason I have this is that I spent 30 years teaching grades 7-12 and then went to a college and now do online teaching with three different schools.

None of the colleges have it right. My experience in the secondary level and having thought about doing this stuff since the seventies has allowed me to get the "trick" right.

So.....what is needed now in Second Life.

A) An entry portal, presumeably made of primitives or slightly modified primitives that one can "pay for".

B) Several "rooms".

There are really only two "rooms" in digital gaming. One is a flat surface with a "bowl" or "half sphere" inverted over it. The flat sufrace is the "ground" outside and the half sphere is the "sky". When one moves "around" one is always, actually, in terms of the gamer, in the center of the "ground" and the ground is actually moving under the player.

What is called a "room" is basically four sided with a top and a bottom. The number of sides can be changed and the top, or presumeably the bottom can be "made into a dome" etc.
Again, the room moves around the player, not the player in the room.

So, given the above, we need several "rooms" which are, for the sake of argument, oblong with tops and bottoms.

They would then be connected by what are called in some engines "jump points", the jump point is a door or whatever.

The rooms should have a "floor" and "ceiling" with different textures and the walls should have a texture.
No need for windows etc.

The thing here........is to have the walls, floor and ceiling to be made by someone who has "the touch" so that even the most sophisticated, or first time player" has an intuition, that "here is something different" so...maybe the education thing is worth at least trying.


The ABOVE, was at first envisioned to be something much more complex.

And it can be more complex later, IF necessary, imagine, if you would a scene from a small town balcksmith shop. The "sprading chestnut" tree out front can be used by english teachers for the poem. The forge can be used by shop teachers to talk about metal working. The animals can be used by the FFA teacher to talk about animals, as can the biology teacher. The whole thing could be made to look "somewhat" like the famous painting, so that the art teacher can use that as a point of discussion...etc...

But, for now, all that is needed are several simple room, probably long as opposed to square.

Inside the room are "attachments" which can actually be primitives, to which the teacher/technician would attach "objects"....the objects that the teacher will be using for that particular class.

The student then moves through the objects interacting with them in various ways.

AGAIN A SIMPLIFICATION:
The objects have always been, in our minds, something that had to be "true 3D"

However, again, actually going into Second Life, I can now see that, for the "proof of concept" they can actually just be "flat" or depending on the object they could be "rendered 3D"(that means they "look" 3D but you can't go behind them to see the back. If you go behind them in Second Life there is just a "grey" back.

The students then move among the objects and interact with them.

Second Life is not the same is playing Counter Strike.

So.. what is neede:

portal
rooms surfaces that "have the touch"
object holders
objects that are either "flat" or "rendered 3D"
"jumps" to the other rooms.
exit.

I actually had a commercial group contact me about doing this for pay. So, there are "lurkers" who have maybe been searching for all posts on the net about Second Life, so I don't want to get into the particulars of "my trick" here... That can be done in sidebar.

However, to get things so that the situation can be attacked.

c) It would be great if I could work with folks who already have experience in Second Life, that would greatly accelerate things....

The reason for the sense of urgency is that a Major University which is presently in Second Life wanted me, supposedly, to work with them, and they have, basically, what I posted in the previous post. Then they disappeared.
That means they are going to run with what they have to keep their grant monies flowing.

So.....If I could work with someone that already has experience in Second Life that would speed things.

HOWEVER,

I "think" that game building experience SUCH AS IN OGRE... would be transferable,

so I will now offer to buy some "memberships" at Second Life for people who show what seems to be a true interest in furthering the cause of "distributed open source software development".

The membership can let me make them a "friend" ...I THINK.... so that they could work on the "scripts" that are apparently provided.

there are also "classes" on the scripting(which I will take at the first chance).

And, again, if it is possible to "import" a "wall" or "texture" that someone has done for say Counter Strike, then that would be the quickest way to get things off the ground.

The people who mod OGRE, Counter Strike and such games HAVE the touch. The problem is that all people who can do this have fifty people like me clamouring to get something done for them... I realize the inherent problems in the situation... I'm one of the people clamouring for attention.. and not even for gaming...but for yyyyeeecchhh education! :(

SO FOURPOSSIBLE WAYS AROUND.....

I) "stuff" be made by folks familiar with OGRE and imported to Second Life
II) "stuff" made by folks familiar with OGRE using the Second Life "stuff"
III) make a "portal/room" at Second Life and go with the original plan of going to a "game" some place.
IV) your ideas..

Whichever of the above were done, of course prominent displays could be made that the "portal" and/or the "rooms" etc, or the game that is jumped to was made with OGRE and is an example of open source software development.

Again, let me thank you for your kind post, ...

Simplifying it for you and others has also simplified it for me....thanks again.

Sometimes it is hard to see the forest for the trees! :)

woodsmoke
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Aladrin
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Post by Aladrin »

It sounds like you've got an idea, but haven't researched it enough yet. It's extremely hard to solicit help to begin with, but if you haven't got a clear plan, and possibly something to show, It's nearly impossible.

My advice: Work on your dream a bit. Get something done. Then, once you've decided exactly what you're doing, explain everything clearly and ask for help.
woodsmoke
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Post by woodsmoke »

ok
woodsmoke
woodsmoke
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membership land purchased two days in second life

Post by woodsmoke »

Hi
I've purchased membership and land, and have spent two days in second life. I have not participated in, but have "looked at" "peeked in" some of the over 100 education projects there.
There is a LOT of GREAT ARTWORK....but nothing out of the ordinary in terms of "teaching" in a way that really grasps the kid(in my opinion).
Here is what is "in" second life, in terms of "doing stuf"
a) the normal primitives. These can be "manipulated" by dragging, etc, to make desired shapes. I have NOT got them to work yet, I'm going to take a "class".
b) "scripting". This ..."seems" to be where the "obvious" part of the stuff is, the textures, etc. There is a large number of "scripts" which can be included somewhere in the data about an object. Where, how, etc. is in the tutorial.

BUT, here is the comment made to all and sundry that visit the kiosk about doing "stuff" like building buildings,etc.

Something like... "Yes, you can learn to make and object and use scripts. However, if you are ready to work on it for many hours it will probably be rather humdrum." "It does not take so much "art" as it takes a lot of work to make something good and many more hours to make it "great". "Not everyone can do this."

Ok, given the above, I'm going to give it a whack, but don't think I'll get anywhere near being good enough in even a month, so, again, I'm asking for help.

Here are some links about files that can be imported into Second Life:

KMZ files,
there is also discussion of sculpted prims(primitives) Blender, Sketchup, and that there are "user created" and I ASSUME, free files that people have made that can be modified. I'm going to go on excursions in the next day or so to take a look at them. If they cost a little that is ok, because the resultant work would be free and open source ...
http://www.3pointd.com/20060626/sketchu ... cond-life/

Targa, TGA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truevision_TGA

Multiple file types are discussed here by one of the founders, and he indicates that the most efficient way is to import from another program.
The other files included may prove useful toward the creation of SL compatible animation characters in 3D applications such as Maya, 3DSMax, Animation Master, and Blender.

Animations created on these characters can then be uploaded into Second Life as long as the 3D app. can be configured to output standard BVH text files.

Additionally, the obj model files can be imported into programs such as Deep Paint and Zbrush to paint clothing, skin, and tattoo textures directly on the 3D mesh, or to simply preview textures on a Second Life compatible mannequin without requiring logging in to Second Life.

"SL_avatar_OBJ.obj" is a version of the base SL avatar mesh with correct texture UVs. The mesh has been divided into groups based on the bone group influences of the SL avatar skeleton. As with the Poser figure above, material groups are divided into the 3 main texture groups found on the SL avatar, �head', 'lowerbody', and 'upperbody'. Additionally, the Poser folder mentioned above contains both male and female .OBJs of the SL mesh without bone groups.

"SL_skirtmesh_OBJ.obj" is 3D mesh representing the SL skirt object.

"SL_Avatar_Tpose.bvh" is a single frame base skeletal animation pose with all joint rotations zeroed out. It can be used as reference to reconstruct the SL skeleton in other 3D applications. Remember that the hierarchy, joint names, and joint rotation order must match those specified in this file in order for any resulting animation to import correctly into Second Life.
This discussion is about the avatar, but that is not what I need,

The reason for the quote was to indicate the names of files commonly used, apparently and the proggys that can make things that are exportable to SL.

http://morbo.cs.pdx.edu/SecondLifeOffic ... Readme.txt

So.... after looking at buildings there, I've modified what is needed.

What is needed are:
a) 3 "oblong" rooms, arranged, as seen from above, and facing the building as an "upside down U"....
b) if one is standing on the ground, looking "into" the "U" as if you were holding a "horseshoe" in front of you and with the "legs" of the U toward your face... is a "courtyard".
c) an "arch" between the legs of the "U" and over the "courtyard" to form an "entrance arch".

a) The oblongs would need a "texture" on the inside and outside of the walls, floor inside and roof inside.
b) the courtyard would need a 'floor" and an "object" like a sculpture, fountain, maybe a table and chairs(the avatars can sit in chairs) These are readily purchaseable from places like DAZ if someone wants me to do that, but there are also probably versions in SL that can be modified.
c) the "arch" is probably a pretty important thing, because the building is "probably" going to be "along a street" and there are a LOT of really GREAT buildings that have had exteriors designed by folks using DAZ artwork and also there are at least two real architectural firms that the bigshots use to build their buildings for a web presence.
it does NOT need to be...."IMPRESSIVE"....it just needs to make a "kid" turn his or her head and say....now "THAT" looks interesting.
d) some "picture frames" into which a teacher's "art" in terms of a .bmp, jpg, etc, can be imported to use for teaching purposes, these would go on the walls in the rooms.

So...really not much, in terms of this is not going to be a "castle" or something with turrets, and flags, etc.

It may be that someone already has a "room" that would be perfectly acceptable, YOU folks are the artists with the touch... and that would be great...

So.... here's my first findings, any comments, questions will be greatly appreciated.

woodsmoke
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