Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

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Klaim
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Klaim » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:38 pm

Wow I edited this line on first write and apparently forgot to re-place the units. I meant 10kilometers per seconds.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Kojack » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:54 pm

10km/s is 36000km/h. That's rather fast. Although Apollo 10 went faster than that (just over 39000km/h) when returning to the earth from the moon.

Since most games don't even let you have 10km visibility, moving 10km each second would strain most streaming systems. :)
X-Plane has enough data to cover that area (it has a 53GB terrain map of the entire earth), but I'm sure it would struggle a bit with that kind of speed. Although... maybe I should try it. I'd need to mod a plane to be that fast though.

If your world was a mathematically generated landscape using distance fields or raycasting, any speed is possible.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Faranwath » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:56 pm

Kojack wrote:Although Apollo 10 went faster than that (just over 39000km/h) when returning to the earth from the moon.
So they say :mrgreen:
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Klaim » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:00 pm

Yeah I know that's fast. :mrgreen:

I always wonder because of a game idea I had for some years that involve being able to make long jumps of 10ths of kilometers. But also have enough close details to allow close combat fighting. Maybe 10km/s is a bit too much though, maybe something like 2km/s would be enough if the speed feeling is good.
But the idea whas that it would have to be very very fast and far jumps, very dynamic.

Anyway, it's just an idea I keep in mind. Maybe if one day I am decided to make it I will have to tackle the technical challenge in the process.
However it sure look that no current game engine could do something like that, once again I would have to rely on custom tech (maybe based on Ogre).
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Kojack » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:53 pm

If the jump was very high, then you would only need to stream in low detail data until you approached a landing.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Klaim » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:56 pm

Yeah but no, it needs to be a bit high but not too much so that you can see all the ground flushing under you. The worst case is if you try to make a jump directly close to the horizon. Also in that game, the player controls a lot about the jump at the beginning and the end but not in-between so he/she have to make some choices on the direction to take, the height etc.
Complicated technically, so I try to not think too much about it.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by MoonStorm » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:15 pm

I have mixed feelings about voxels to be honest. To me that's an extreme, not a solution to this kind of problem.

I am baffled about this: http://proland.imag.fr/videos.html
It goes from a planetary level all the way down to detailed terrain at a consistent frame rate. A runtime road tool is also available. Problem is its license, but in any case, hats off to whoever developed it.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by dark_sylinc » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:20 pm

hydexon wrote:The only bad thing i find in UE3 only is still using the Forward Rendering pipeline, UE4 is completely deferred with physically-based shading system (when Ogre will have this?, will be cool!).
Soon.

I'm actively working on PBS. Don't have screenshots to show yet.
However we won't back deferred shading (Ogre 2.0 will provide deferred shading examples, it will be much easier to setup for those interested).
Deferred Shading is a dead end by now, but it's still very much alive because you're seeing the culmination of many engines' work. DS is a dead end because of its extreme bandwidth requirement (no GPU in the market can push a 4k resolution using DS)
I'm working on Forward+ 2.5 solutions that eliminate the need of a Z-prepass. Although it has a few tradeoffs compared to DS (i.e. probably slightly slower at regular resolutions), it solves the bandwidth problem, the antialising problem, and the transparency problem.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by hydexon » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:58 pm

dark_sylinc wrote:
hydexon wrote:The only bad thing i find in UE3 only is still using the Forward Rendering pipeline, UE4 is completely deferred with physically-based shading system (when Ogre will have this?, will be cool!).
Soon.

I'm actively working on PBS. Don't have screenshots to show yet.
However we won't back deferred shading (Ogre 2.0 will provide deferred shading examples, it will be much easier to setup for those interested).
Deferred Shading is a dead end by now, but it's still very much alive because you're seeing the culmination of many engines' work. DS is a dead end because of its extreme bandwidth requirement (no GPU in the market can push a 4k resolution using DS)
I'm working on Forward+ 2.5 solutions that eliminate the need of a Z-prepass. Although it has a few tradeoffs compared to DS (i.e. probably slightly slower at regular resolutions), it solves the bandwidth problem, the antialising problem, and the transparency problem.
I don't care about the screenshots, the important thing there is actively developed, keep the great work.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Crashy » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:06 am

Dark_Sylinc, what do you mean by Forward +2.5 ?
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Zonder » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:41 pm

Crashy wrote:Dark_Sylinc, what do you mean by Forward +2.5 ?
I found a pdf with some info https://sites.google.com/site/takahiroh ... edirects=2
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Crashy » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:55 pm

Thank you, very intersting. :)
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Zonder » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:11 pm

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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by cybereality » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:01 am

Zonder wrote:Came across another link on PBS https://www.fxguide.com/featured/game-e ... rendering/
Awesome link, thanks for sharing.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by mrtm3050 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:42 pm

How's the PBR work going dark?
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by dark_sylinc » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:56 pm

Very well!

If you follow my twitter feed I tend to post some pics from time to time.
I haven't released the improvements or much info yet due to some agreements (one of the sponsors is working in a super awesome material editor that runs on top of Ogre 2.0's PBS systems and wants to release the editor at the same time the code goes public).

Meanwhile I'm focusing on PBS + AZDO + MultiDraw and it's going great. Just yesterday it started working for the first time. The road to very fast Ogre is starting to shape up!
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by frostbyte » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:06 pm

I haven't released the improvements or much info yet due to some agreements (
one of the sponsors is working in a super awesome material editor that runs on top of Ogre 2.0's PBS systems and wants to release the editor at the same time the code goes public
:shock:
as much as i appriciate your work and talent - this sound's a bit against ogre's community spirit( open source and stuff... )

Edit - if this editor will be free and open source then forgive my ignorance...and forget about this post...
Last edited by frostbyte on Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:55 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by c6burns » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:10 pm

What, you want a GPL license? No thanks!
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by frostbyte » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:22 pm

no i'm fine with the current licence - just did'nt think ogre's team work's for some guy with money who gets to decide when to do what....naive me....
what i mean is that it feels to me that ogre=zero without the community( plugins, tutorials, apps, games, editor, forum, etc... ) that spent a "small amount" of time, money and nerves on this api...( to be honest the amazing community around ogre is why i choose ogre )
so now comes a sponser with money( pennies i'm sure... ) and influance ogre team to hold stuff from the community which without - ogre wouldn''t realy exist...
community effort around ogre = millions of $$$ how does what the sponsor offered( new laptop??? ) compares to that???
not to mention good folks putting their hearts and minds here....( many names come to mind...the list is too long... )

Edit: yeah maybe( for sure ) i'm over dramatic about this small issue - never the less...it does'nt feel right...
Last edited by frostbyte on Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by c6burns » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:02 am

There's so many assumptions you are making I don't even think they each deserve a response. You are benefiting from all this, not getting shafted. I don't get how you don't see that. You don't reserve the right to dictate how dark_sylinc prioritizes his work on Ogre 2.0. The license says he can take it all and do whatever he wants with it and give you nothing. The sponsor/person/whoever that is making the material editor *over top* of the PBS system is equally entitled to give you nothing at all. If he decides to hand over his hard work for free then how did you not end up winning? If he doesn't give it away for free then how did you end up losing? You don't have to give away anything you base off Ogre either ... which is the point of a permissive license such as MIT.

Also sponsors and bounties and so forth are not some new concept in the OSS community. Look around at other projects.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by frostbyte » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:22 am

yes i know how to calculate win/lose - for the long run- ogre team prioratizing sponsers (however wonderful they are) is a lose
i'm not talking about what he can or can't do( fully aware of what mit is )
i'm not dictating anyone( if i was a dictator i would be a lousy one )...
and i'm too cheap to get into dectator position( atleast now i know it's possible- using $$$ )
true - i'm not in position to dictate anything - however i can freely speak my mind and heart( yes unfortunatly i'm partly human )
and my posts reflect on how i feel about this issue...were not talking here about some ogre based product but on ogre's core itself...
and relationship between code, team , "sponsources" and community...

i knew about commercial supporters influence( mostly exposed to the good sides ) - just did'nt think it would be so "vouge"...
i was led to beleive that:
It’s also worth mentioning what donating doesn’t get you – it doesn’t get you any more influence or attention than any other user, in the forum or otherwise. Donations are voluntary and cannot come with any conditions or expectations of special treatment attached.

please update this page http://www.ogre3d.org/donations to reflect current status...

c6 thanks for your feed-back - helped me get back to realty( money and politics )... ( and me having too much screen time ) :D

i wish nothing but the best to the wonderful folks around here( including sponsers ), and if i sound a bit harsh its only because i care...

any way i'm hijacking this thread so i'm finished with this topic...( i can delete my post if anyone think i should.... )
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by dark_sylinc » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:18 am

I'm going to reply to avoid that line of thinking needlessly echoing across the community.

I'm a big FOSS advocate. In a perfect world, I would do 3D software that helps other people making entertainment sw that helps other people to relax, medical visualizations sw, and virtual training.
Some of these people would in turn do engineering tasks that helps farmers have better crops. And these farmers would distribute through people in charge of distribution (train, trucks, etc) to supply the food for all of us.
A perfectly oiled working machine where everyone plays his little role; no need for money at all.
But we don't live in a perfect world. We all have got bills to pay. We even have people in the world who get more money than they deserve, while some people get less than they deserve.
We accept this reality, we make our grain of salt towards a better one, and move on.

First, this sponsor isn't preventing the Ogre 2.0 implementations from ever being relased as open source. We're just delaying the release. Which is not really a delay because it's not ready yet, we're just basically not posting the progress.
Granted, being a FOSS advocate I'm not personally 100% happy with not revealing the progress but it's better than no Ogre 2.0 at all.
Individuals, teams and companies that have something to offer (whether via funding or advanced technical expertise aka code contributions) can request early access to the unfinished version (which is actually in a working state and being used by a company in production).
The sponsor/person/whoever that is making the material editor *over top* of the PBS system is equally entitled to give you nothing at all.
Exactly. When it comes to the material editor, as far as I know it will be free with some pro (paid) features.
Nothing prevents any other user from making an open source editor alternative. Demanding this editor to be open source has the same grounds as demanding Torchlight to be open source, or the entire PS3 and OS X ecosystems to be open source, because they were built on top of modified FreeBSD/UNIX.
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by frostbyte » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:45 am

thanks man ( loved the part about farmers and stuff :lol: )
We accept this reality, we make our grain of salt towards a better one, and move on.
you're genualy a great dude...
i'm chilled 8) moved on...
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Pazns » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:02 am

dark_sylinc wrote:I'm going to reply to avoid that line of thinking needlessly echoing across the community. [...]
Just wanted to show my joy to read all that :D !
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Re: Unreal Engine 4: source code and near free

Post by Thyrion » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:31 pm

jesus....

even the mighty capcom runs to Unreal .....

http://www.gameswelt.de/street-fighter- ... e-4,233340
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