IT's important!!! Developers of Orge, asnwer pls!!

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Medved
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IT's important!!! Developers of Orge, asnwer pls!!

Post by Medved » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:20 pm

Hi! We are beginner developers from Russia. We are "Devil's friends development studio". So, I've one important question: can I rename your engine? For example, when we'll finish our game, can I write, that it was created on.. hmm.. "Devil's engine", for example? Or I should leave it "Ogre engine?". I have not very good english, so I couldn't find it in licence.
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Post by Kencho » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:43 pm

The name must remain as far as I know. You can't take other's work (or free work such as LGPL/GPL) as yours. You can create your own framework/game engine called "Devil's engine", and link Ogre to manage the graphics (like OpenAL for sound and such...).

In any case, you should definitely read the license, though it takes you some time to translate/read.
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Post by jacmoe » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:44 pm

That is probably the most lame question I've seen in quite a while..

You basically want to be able to say that you wrote the whole lot yourselves?

That is totally ridiculous.
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Post by jacmoe » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:47 pm

If you are writing the rest of the engine - Ogre is a rendering engine, right?
Then - of course - you are free to call your Game Engine what you want.
You wrote it, you name it.
Do not, ever, say that you wrote the rendering engine.
It is common courtesy to say that you are using Ogre for rendering, but there is no explicit requirement. :wink:
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Post by betajaen » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:05 pm

The question becomes then, if someone else took "Devil Engine" and decided to name it something like "Goblin3D".

Rather silly me thinks.
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Post by ahmedali » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:06 am

Im not surprised with the OP's question. When I was a beginner programmer I also had this sneaky attitude towards opensource work. I had a delusion that I can sneak opensource work into becoming part of my work without any problem, with self-satisfaction. And giving no attention to licenses etc, GPL or TottalyFreeToOwn&Use didnt matter to me.

Lack of guidance, it takes time to get used to moral & legal affairs related to opensource development. The more experienced programmer I became the more I got concious with licenses & other developers rights.
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Post by sinbad » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:46 pm

jacmoe wrote:It is common courtesy to say that you are using Ogre for rendering, but there is no explicit requirement. :wink:
Well, it's actually implicit. Because to satisfy the LGPL you must either include the source code to Ogre in your distributed application, or link to a place where a person may obtain it (like http://www.ogre3d.org). Therefore, you can call your engine whatever you like, but you can't get away from providing the Ogre source or linking to it - so if you were trying to fool someone into thinking it's something else, you won't get very far. You can't pretend you're not using open source.

Calling your engine something else and not providing the original Ogre source with copyrights intact, or linking to www.ogre3d.org , is against the license and you will burn in hell if you do it.
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Post by starbug » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:55 pm

The question you ask should not be "How can i sell someone else's work as my own?", but "What can i contribute in return for the great software i am using?"
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Post by Funcracker » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:02 pm

Hmm. I get the impression the TS thinks Ogre is a fullblown game-engine (something which happens every now and then). Ss it is not, Kencho's answer makes sense.

You can call your own game engine whatever you want, as long as you mention it includes the Ogre3D graphics engine (provide source/link, etc; see sinbad's post).
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Post by Kristian » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:04 pm

Medved:
Whoa! you got a cool name "Devil's friends development studio" !!! Can I use your name for creating and publishing my own products ? Please achknowledge and I will wait until you've grown.
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Post by AticAtac » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:17 pm

Don't get offensive or flame the TS.
At least he asked it here, so a "NO" answer would be enough.
No one should get flamed by just asking question.
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Post by jacmoe » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:59 pm

AticAtac wrote:No one should get flamed by just asking question.
They should be flamed thoroughly.

Of all questions, this has to be the one you simply do not ask.

The question is not innocent in any way, not even slightly.

I do hope that this is a language issue, but I guess it isn't.
Since the OP hasn't pursued the topic further.
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Post by deficite » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:00 pm

jacmoe wrote:
AticAtac wrote:No one should get flamed by just asking question.
They should be flamed thoroughly.

Of all questions, this has to be the one you simply do not ask.

The question is not innocent in any way, not even slightly.

I do hope that this is a language issue, but I guess it isn't.
Since the OP hasn't pursued the topic further.
Agreed.
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Post by Rackle » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:01 pm

Hopefully what was meant was: Ogre + CeGUI + OIS + RakNet + AI + Physics + Database = "Devil's engine", a game engine package where you can "develop" a game by only supplying new models and a few configuration/data files (I'm thinking of a game engine that's MODdable).
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Post by nikki » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:23 pm

can I rename your engine?
Or I should leave it "Ogre engine?"
Well, that kind of tells me that he wanted to rename Ogre itself, and not his own game engine, but maybe that was due to his poor English.

Thinking about it, it would be awesome if it was nikkithms instead of logarithms, nikkiv instead of tv... The possibilities are endless...
<continues to dream> :)
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Post by syedhs » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:37 pm

Well I think he is innocent! :) Why?

Because he at least had the courage to post the question this in the forum (no matter how ridiculous this is to the informed). If he does know all the licensing term/impact/ethics, he would do much better not to ask. He will just integrate all the engines, rename it to the names he liked no one wouldn't know that. And obviously, you wouldn't flame that person either :wink:
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Post by jacmoe » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:19 pm

Rackle wrote:Hopefully what was meant was: Ogre + CeGUI + OIS + RakNet + AI + Physics + Database = "Devil's engine", a game engine package where you can "develop" a game by only supplying new models and a few configuration/data files (I'm thinking of a game engine that's MODdable).
Yes. That's what I would like to think it is.
He asked if he could rename our engine - yes, he can.
If the engine itself becomes LGPL'ed, he can.
That is what Leedguitar did with Axiom.
Sure. :wink:
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Post by Aladrin » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:23 pm

This reminds me of the time I asked another project if I could use their engine commercially.

I received a -lot- of negativity about it.

You know what was dumb? Their license said I -could-. I pointed that out, noting that I had no intention of going against their wishes. They changed the license to a non-commercial one shortly after.

I helped with the project anyhow, and about a year later, they changed their minds. It's now GPL, I believe. (I was interesting in using the engine commercially, not modifying without contributing.)

Anyhow, short story long, this is the same reaction I got in their forum for asking a simple question.

He now knows that you find the idea morally reprehensible and won't do it. But there -was- a chance you wouldn't care and would let him do it. And let's not forget, BSD-licensed code allows this, so there -are- some people that would have allowed it.
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Post by jacmoe » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:28 pm

We haven't the foggiest notion of what he thinks - he haven't posted back to enlighten us.

If Medved were interested in being understood properly, we are a community you can talk to. :wink:
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Post by jacmoe » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:52 pm

That reminds me of the Alias25 Game Library created by some Pierre Renaux.
All headers had a copyright header where he claimed that it was all written by him.

Strangely enough, most of his code were unmistakenly SDL code.. :?
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Post by jacmoe » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:22 pm

Enter Mr. Hardy:
http://youfailit.net/?p=49 :twisted:
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Post by tau » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:16 pm

jacmoe wrote:
AticAtac wrote:No one should get flamed by just asking question.
They should be flamed thoroughly.
You are evil and a sadist, Jacmoe :D
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Post by jacmoe » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:21 pm

tau wrote:You are evil and a sadist, Jacmoe :D
Thank you! :)
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