xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Anything and everything that's related to OGRE or the wider graphics field that doesn't fit into the other forums.
Post Reply
User avatar
davidB
Gnoblar
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:11 am

xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by davidB » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:48 am

Hi,

I'm working on xbuf.
xbuf is an exchange format usable to store scene, models, animations in file or to edit scene over network. It takes inspiration from :

OpenGEX : as data to managed, and doc fragment I copied
glTF : some discussions and some goals
blender api : how blender manages data
Entity-Component-System (ECS), RDF : as way to extends and to link data

xbuf is a binary format using Protocol Buffers (aka protobuf) to generate source code for java, C++, python,... to read and write it. Then it's more developer friendly than json, oddl, xml, or any text based dialect, without loosing flexibility via extension.

The project would like to be an Community Format shared by several engines, tools. It's Open to any controibutions (code, discussion, issues, tools, ...).
I'm not an Ogre user, nor a C++ dev. But I would like to create a cross community format (I'm a jMonkeyEngine user). So I ask you for help : contribution, suggestion, feedback, comments, maybe a loader for ogre,...

The format is WIP and open to evolution (version 0.x.y). I'm working on the Blender exporter and a realtime viewer in blender.

[youtube]3pQd65_dkeM[/youtube]

Image

The project is hosted on github : https://github.com/davidB/xbuf
The generated reader/writer (include C++ source, but not tested) are hosted on bintray : https://bintray.com/davidb/maven/xbuf/view#files

Thanks
0 x

User avatar
jacmoe
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 20570
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by jacmoe » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:45 am

So, because OpenGEX actually managed to get some traction, you have decided to take advantage of that and create a slightly changed (borrowed) format in your own name?
What a wonderful idea..
0 x
/* Less noise. More signal. */
Ogitor Scenebuilder - powered by Ogre, presented by Qt, fueled by Passion.
OgreAddons - the Ogre code suppository.

frostbyte
Orc Shaman
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 2:28 am
x 14

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by frostbyte » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:59 am

So, because OpenGEX actually managed to get some traction, you have decided to take advantage of that and create a slightly changed (borrowed) format in your own name?
What a wonderful idea..
i think his idea is about a format optimized for real-time data exchange between different apps so they can seamlessly work together
another benefit is that you don't need to write a parser for each langauge, just plugin your engine to the code and your good to go...
while the demo and format is only at "proof of concept" stage, i think it proves that its more than just another exchange format,
but a whole new generic and easy way for graphics middle-ware to cooparate...
0 x
the woods are lovely dark and deep
but i have promises to keep
and miles to code before i sleep
and miles to code before i sleep..

coolest videos link( two minutes paper )...
https://www.youtube.com/user/keeroyz/videos

User avatar
jacmoe
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 20570
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by jacmoe » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:14 am

Well, that's all fine, and probably a good idea for small indie engines.

Ogre has always had it's own optimized binary format, though.
And the next version of mesh is going to kick some serious /#/&, I am sure.

Also, for real-time exchange, keep in mind the HLMS / PBS + Online Editor by CodeRabbit.
0 x
/* Less noise. More signal. */
Ogitor Scenebuilder - powered by Ogre, presented by Qt, fueled by Passion.
OgreAddons - the Ogre code suppository.

frostbyte
Orc Shaman
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 2:28 am
x 14

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by frostbyte » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:36 am

Also, for real-time exchange, keep in mind the HLMS / PBS + Online Editor by CodeRabbit.
yeah thats partly the idea...underhood i guess they have the same stuff going on...but afaik its only for materials...
i don't know their plans or if they will publish an open stanard and implemantation
if they do it would be great and ogre should support this from day 1...
this can be a good solution for ogre not having enough profesional tools...( beside ogitor :wink: )
0 x
the woods are lovely dark and deep
but i have promises to keep
and miles to code before i sleep
and miles to code before i sleep..

coolest videos link( two minutes paper )...
https://www.youtube.com/user/keeroyz/videos

User avatar
davidB
Gnoblar
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:11 am

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by davidB » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:13 am

Thanks for the comments.

At the beginning I whish to use Blender as a level editor, and to be able to preview model with my favorite engine. Blender side doesn't link to engine (network interface). Due to the OpenGEX's traction, I tried to use it for mesh,...

* But writing good reader+importer isn't an easy task and the support of OpenGEX is "stalled" or planned (GSoC) for lot of tool.
* OpenGEX strategie is more works on importer side, eg. the importer should support Yup, Zup,.. and every metrics. xbuf is less work to write importer, alsways the same units/metrics/referencial so it becomes easier to merge or to split xbuf data.
* OpenGEX is not "Community driven", you have to write email or tweet to Eric L. And I really hope to provide a cross-engine format, to allow sharing resourses, knowledge, tools and more part of the asset's pipeline.

From the FAQ
Why not OpenGEX ?

* it requires to write parser and low level writer, and writing good parser is hard.
* text based, not optimal for network and realtime update
I was not aware of HLMS / PBS + Online Editor by CodeRabbit (there are so many tools). I'll take a look, thanks.

The format is not super optimized (size, speed read), because it's an exchange and extensible format. So it's not a competitor to your binary format. I hope it's more a successor to your xml format (for scene, animation) and a future alternative to FBX ;-) .

The format is young and very "suggestible" (eg, its name was change last week, suggestion from jMonkeyEngine core members)
0 x

PhilipLB
Google Summer of Code Student
Google Summer of Code Student
Posts: 550
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:07 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by PhilipLB » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:39 am

0 x
Google Summer of Code 2012 Student
Topic: "Volume Rendering with LOD aimed at terrain"
Project links: Project thread, WIKI page, Code fork for the project
Mentor: Mattan Furst


Volume GFX, accepting donations.

User avatar
jacmoe
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 20570
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by jacmoe » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:49 am

davidB wrote: From the FAQ
Why not OpenGEX ?

* it requires to write parser and low level writer, and writing good parser is hard.
* text based, not optimal for network and realtime update
There is a parser, actually several parsers. One parser has been provided by OpenGEX.
Network and realtime update was, and will never be, in scope of the effort.
What I like about OpenGEX is that is does not bloat.
It aims to do one thing, and do it better than fbx and collada.

OpenGEX is the only exchange format which I have seen gain any traction.

I wish your project success, and it's great that you managed to convince the jMonkey team, but I really think it would suit the project if you cut the FUD.
0 x
/* Less noise. More signal. */
Ogitor Scenebuilder - powered by Ogre, presented by Qt, fueled by Passion.
OgreAddons - the Ogre code suppository.

User avatar
davidB
Gnoblar
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:11 am

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by davidB » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:43 am

I don't want to FUD. When you announce format 15, the firsts question are "why not format 14 ?" "how do you compare to format 13 ?". I just want to answer this natural question. OpenGEX have some qualities, I toke inspiration from its spec and blender exporter source code.

Thanks for your remarks :

* I include the the xkcd in the README (xbuf need to have users before claiming to be standard :-D )
* I complete the point about parser :
except if you use [OpenGEX Import Template](http://opengex.org/OpenGex-Import.zip) (C++ only), it requires to write parser and low level writer, and writing good parser is hard.
Any suggestions, advices, requirements about the format itself ?
0 x

User avatar
davidB
Gnoblar
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:11 am

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by davidB » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:55 am

I'm working on animation, and I'm experimenting several way to store data. What is the Ogre preference ?

* having curve (key points, interpolation function (linear, constant, cubicbezier (+ handles),...) per axis
* having baked values (translation, rotation, scale) per "frame" with only linear interpolation
* other ???
0 x

User avatar
Chris Jones
Lich
Posts: 1742
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: Gosport, South England

Re: xbuf: call for help for an other 3D format

Post by Chris Jones » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:04 am

PhilipLB wrote:Hm... http://xkcd.com/927/
I was going to post that too
0 x

Post Reply