GraLL - WIP Topic (Game Released. Check Other Topic)

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nikki
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Post by nikki » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:43 pm

Sycle wrote:How about transit pipes (like Sonic, but they could look more like the ones in Futurama) that could move you about the level?

Or a 'gravity switch' or 'sticky mode' which would allow you to travel along the walls temporarily?
Nice idea, but would transporters (teleporters) do instead of transit pipes? About sticky mode, I will think about it.

Thanks! :)
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Post by yuriythebest » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:15 pm

nikki wrote: Nice idea, but would transporters (teleporters) do instead of transit pipes? About sticky mode, I will think about it.
ahh, a star-trek fan I see 8)
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Post by nikki » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:17 pm

yuriythebest wrote:
nikki wrote: Nice idea, but would transporters (teleporters) do instead of transit pipes? About sticky mode, I will think about it.
ahh, a star-trek fan I see 8)
I am not a Star-Trek fan. In fact, I haven't watched even a single episode of Start-Trek. :)
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Post by PolyVox » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:13 am

Furturama style pipes sound like a great idea - though ideally they are tight fitting so I don't know if the physics has problems?
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Post by nikki » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:46 am

Futurama pipes? Whats that?
<runs to Google for help>
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Post by nikki » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:27 am

Ok, I have started working on Transporters. When you enter a Transporter, you are sent to a Receiver. In the level editor, you can set parameters for all objects. For the Transporter, the parameter is the name of the Receiver. For the Receiver, the parameter is its own name. So, for example, we make a Transporter and set its parameter to 'check'. Then, we make a Receiver and set its parameter to 'check'. Then, in the game, when you enter the 'check' Transporter, you will come out of the 'check' Receiver.

I also added a few other useful features, such as using T and G to adjust brightness, R and F to adjust camera height (alows a top-down veiw), and, most importantly, directional light and shadows! :)

Here is a screenshot showing shadows (its from Level 1 - 'Learning To Roll'):-
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Post by Aiursrage2k » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:39 am

From the game super mario world.
You have colored cubes (that are in wire frame mode), when you hit the switch it fills in the blocks (allowing to walk on them or in your case push).

The futurama tubes would be very cool.
http://www.gotfuturama.com/Information/ ... rt_System/
http://www.ironicsans.com/images/futur6.jpg
http://www.wapchimp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/manintube.gif
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Post by nikki » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:11 pm

Aiursrage2k wrote:You have colored cubes (that are in wire frame mode), when you hit the switch it fills in the blocks (allowing to walk on them or in your case push).
Ok, maybe I will add it.
Last edited by nikki on Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by nikki » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:20 am

A demo has been released!
Check the first post for a download link! :)
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Post by Aiursrage2k » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:15 pm

Nice game. The next thing to add would be way points. As I made it across the river, only to be killed by the spikes (twice).

Also there are situations where you can push the blocks into an unwinnable situation. I suggest having a reset switch ala xenosaga puzzles, that resets the blocks to there start location.
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Post by nikki » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:39 pm

Aiursrage2k wrote:Nice game. The next thing to add would be way points. As I made it across the river, only to be killed by the spikes (twice).

Also there are situations where you can push the blocks into an unwinnable situation. I suggest having a reset switch ala xenosaga puzzles, that resets the blocks to there start location.
Thanks for playing! :) I will add waypoints, but only for the tutorial level. In the other levels, the Player should be able to go by himself. About pushing the blocks into unwinnable situations, the reset switch should restart the whole level? Or just the blocks? I think that it better restart the whole level.

Did you finish the 3rd level?
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Post by Borundin » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:03 am

I just downloaded and tested GraLL this evening and I must say that youve made a really nice game!

Anyway since Im working on a similar project I thought I should give some constructive comments. I hope you dont mind :wink:

Your art pipeline seems flawless as I mentioned in a previous post. Very important to have that. One suggestion would be to use a scripted level format which could provide more varied content. Maybe next game? About the game, I love how you can build all sorts of intresting levels with just a few game elements. They work well and it feels intuitive how you should use them. Spikes and bombs looks dangerous. Crates in the middle of a room can be pushed etc.

One thing I would suggest that you change is the difficulty level of the Tutorial level. The first level is very hard for a beginner... That or its just me getting old :) Even so one should remeber that its easy to loose a new player if you havent balanced the difficulty level very carefully. The first level should be simple and only introduce a few selected game elements and should not be too long (timewise) or else the player might loose interest and move on to the next game. It shouldnt be too easy either of course, that would lead to the same decision. All that said I still got hooked so cant say that youre doing anything wrong really :D

I can also understand that it is tempting to show off all different game elements in the first level but then you take something away from the player. You take away part of the exploration joy because finding out about new game elements (such as the moving platform) and learning how to use or not use them can be as enjoyable as making it to the next level or even more so. Also If you slowly introduce new game elements then there isnt such a great need to have a tutorial level at all since the player will gradually learn how to interact with the new content.
There is a very intresting article over at Gamasutra.com about this that everyone designing a game should read IMO: Gameplay Design Fundamentals: Gameplay Progression.
The best structured games start out extremely easy to allow all players to quickly experience the reward of game progress (by completing the level, winning the race, or defeating the opponent).

Over to a bug report.
Three times the game has just crashed out in the middle of a game. I saved two of the log files (only showing the last few lines here). Hope they can be useful for tracking it down:

Code: Select all

17:57:23: SpeedBoost with ID 156 created.
17:57:23: Parsing Object: Type: Door | Arguments: ElectricDoor | Position: 105 5 85 | Orientation: 0.707107 0 -0.707107 0
17:57:23: Door with ID 157 created.
17:57:23: Parsing Object: Type: Fan | Arguments: 100,40 | Position: 135 5 115 | Orientation: 1 0 0 0
17:57:23: Fan with ID 158 created.
17:57:23: Parsing Object: Type: EndPad | Arguments: none | Position: -125.083 5.0553 125.053 | Orientation: 1 0 0 0
17:57:23: EndPad with ID 159 created.
17:57:23: Parsing Object: Type: Acid | Arguments: none | Position: -65.0806 -15.0049 -74.9982 | Orientation: 1 0 0 0
17:57:23: Acid with ID 160 created.
17:57:23: Parsing Object: Type: Crate | Arguments: none | Position: -75 7.5 -45 | Orientation: 1 0 0 0
17:57:23: Crate with ID 161 created
17:57:25: Spikes with ID 162 created.
17:57:25: Spikes with ID 163 created.
17:57:25: Spikes with ID 164 created.
17:57:26: An exception has been thrown!

-----------------------------------
Details:
-----------------------------------
Error #: 6
Function: OverlayManager::createOverlayElement
Description: OverlayElement with name GUIBase.w31 already exists.. 
File: ..\src\OgreOverlayManager.cpp
Line: 549
Stack unwinding: <<beginning of stack>>
And another one:

Code: Select all

21:04:01: Spikes with ID 101 destroyed.
21:04:02: Key with ID 150 got message 'Touched' with value ''.
21:04:02: Key with ID 150 destroyed.
21:04:03: Spikes with ID 150 created.
21:04:03: Spikes with ID 101 created.
21:04:03: Spikes with ID 99 created.
21:04:04: |Door|DoorB| with ID 151 opening.
21:04:04: Spikes with ID 150 destroyed.
21:04:04: Spikes with ID 99 destroyed.
21:04:04: Spikes with ID 101 destroyed.
21:04:04: Door with ID 151 destroyed.
21:04:05: An exception has been thrown!

-----------------------------------
Details:
-----------------------------------
Error #: 6
Function: OverlayManager::createOverlayElement
Description: OverlayElement with name GUIBase.w31 already exists.. 
File: ..\src\OgreOverlayManager.cpp
Line: 549
Stack unwinding: <<beginning of stack>>


Anyway good luck with your project! Must finish Tutorial level now....
Last edited by Borundin on Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by nikki » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:24 am

Thanks for the wonderful reply, Borundin. I have seen it crash for that reason too, but I'm not sure (and haven't been able to find out) why exactly. It is related to BetaGUI. I have talked to Betajean about it before. He sent me a version of the library that was supposed to fix it. It seems that this happens when the number of windows created exceeds a certain amount. I am not blaming it on Betajean, though. :)

Thanks for your comments on gameplay and the introduction of features to the Player. Instead of teaching everything in one level, I will teach fewer elements in a level and make more 'tutorial' levels. I am going to read that article you posted a link to now. :)

ps. You can press the 'N' key (when not paused) to skip to the next level. Don't do in the 3rd level (last one), because the application will close (close, not crash). You can use the 'P' key to pause. Use 'T' and 'G' to adjust brightness.
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Post by PolyVox » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:29 pm

nikki wrote:Futurama pipes? Whats that?
<runs to Google for help>
Sorry, they are long transparent pipes which, in the programme Futurama, are used to transport people between places. So you just enter te pipe at one end and you get fired to the other end.
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Post by nikki » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:12 pm

esuvs wrote:
nikki wrote:Futurama pipes? Whats that?
<runs to Google for help>
Sorry, they are long transparent pipes which, in the programme Futurama, are used to transport people between places. So you just enter te pipe at one end and you get fired to the other end.
Yeah, I found out about it. Did you play the demo? :)
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Post by Yaraher » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:26 pm

I must say.. it's a damn hard game :oops:
I can't even past the first level, and can get on the sliding planes of the second one (using the "n cheat" :oops: ).

Besides that, excellent work!
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Post by nikki » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:36 pm

Yaraher wrote:I must say.. it's a damn hard game :oops:
I can't even past the first level, and can get on the sliding planes of the second one (using the "n cheat" :oops: ).

Besides that, excellent work!
Yeah, I know. Its not for the faint of heart. If that was tough, you should play Jumper 2 and Chip's Challenge. :)

The 2nd level is actually an easy one. :) Use the 'N' cheat to get to the 3rd level. That's a pretty good one, especially in the starting sequence. If you cant get past, here's how:-

When you start, you face south. First, wait for the moving bomb to just pass you while going south. When it does, quickly run to the crate but DONT push it. Get into the little gap to the west of the crate to stay safe. Wait for the bomb to come back. Just after it turns around, push the crate east. Then, run north, then west, back south, and get the blue key (do this fast, or the bomb will get you). Wait for the bomb to engage in a circular motion. When it does, get just behind it, and go toward the blue door. Open it, and enter the hard part. :) Make your way across the bombs (cant explain how). Then, push the first crate into the acid, and then the one that's south. While getting the the last crate, beware of the bomb. After the three crates are in the acid, run fast and jump over the last part (there are 4 grid spaces filled with acid). The rest of it is pretty self-explanatory. :)
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Post by kneeride » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:02 am

nikki wrote:
Sycle wrote:How about transit pipes...
Nice idea, but would transporters (teleporters) do instead of transit pipes?
Transit pipes sound a lot cooler. You could have the camera run along the pipe as the character travels
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Post by irrdev » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:02 am

Nice game. I must say that it is rather tough though! I am still completing the first level. There are two suggestions that I have. The first one concerns the camera view. Currently, the camera is always behind and above the robot. If the robot starts spinning, then the camera starts following around at a terrific rate, and makes the visibility of the gameplay extremely difficult. I suggest maybe making a delay timer. Basically, once the robot starts spinning, there is a delay of 1/5 of a second before the camera reacts, and the camera has a max turn/zooming speed of so much per second. My second suggestion is a reset button for each task. For example, if the robot pushes a box into a corner, then the player has to start all over again. It would be nice if the current task could be reset to the starting point, thus allowing the player not to restart the level. Otherwise, great game! I like how you have used BetaGUI! :)
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Post by nikki » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:43 am

Thanks for the nice reply! :)
irrdev wrote:Currently, the camera is always behind and above the robot. If the robot starts spinning, then the camera starts following around at a terrific rate, and makes the visibility of the gameplay extremely difficult. I suggest maybe making a delay timer. Basically, once the robot starts spinning, there is a delay of 1/5 of a second before the camera reacts, and the camera has a max turn/zooming speed of so much per second.)
I will see about that, but if you want, you can use 'R' and 'F' to adjust the camera height.
irrdev wrote:My second suggestion is a reset button for each task. For example, if the robot pushes a box into a corner, then the player has to start all over again. It would be nice if the current task could be reset to the starting point, thus allowing the player not to restart the level.
Unfortunately, such a button is not possible. The level is not strictly divided into 'tasks'. Even if it is, the first task might affect the second one and so on. For example, the Player gets a key in the first task which is needed in the fourth task. If he makes a mistake in the fourth task and resets the task, he will lose the key.
Maybe, instead of reset task, I can make a checkpoint feature. When the Player goes through a checkpoint, his position and keys etc are saved. When he dies, he continues from there.

EDIT: I added two new features. A white key/pickup which gives you the ability to walk on ice, and a purple key/pickup which takes away this ability.
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Post by nikki » Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:24 am

Development will be stopped for 2 or 3 days, because I am going to reformat the hard drive and install everything again due to driver problems. :(
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Post by nikki » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:50 am

Yay! I fixed the computer! Now I have to install Visual C++ 2005 Express, PSDK, DirectX SDK, Ogre CVS HEAD, OgreODE, Blender, Python24, Audiere and a few other things. :)
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Post by nikki » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:14 pm

Ahh, development going at full speed now. I finished making the 5th level. Ideas/comments/whatever are/is still welcome! :)
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Post by nikki » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:04 pm

Sorry for the extreme double posting :) , but how many levels do you guys think must be there?
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Post by PolyVox » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:23 am

Ok, so I finally got around to giving it a go... excellent job! You've got it to the stage where it's most definatly playable. So my thoughts:

1) Controls were a bit fiddely. Can you personally complete it with both keyboard and mouse? I also found it frustrating when trying to move the blocks that the wall would hide my view of the ball.

2) I don't think it should be possible to trap yourself - espessially on the first puzzle. I pushed a box against the wall and couldn't move it again.

3) Definatly needs waypoints. I died once on the acid, once on the bombs, and once on the moving platform but then didn't want to do the earlier challenges again. Probably there should be waypoint every 3 challenges or before really hard ones.

4) Did you mention there was a way to skip levels for testing? I only tried the first one.

As for your question of how many levels - maybe you break it into worlds? With different themes? Three worlds with 5 levels each. Your art great (for programmer art) but could use more variety instead of all grey walls. But then I didn't get past the first level - maybe it changes later.

I'm going away for the weekend, i'll try and give it another go next week.
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