Portalized (GUI update)

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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by jacmoe » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:53 pm

Now I had the time to watch the videos - stunning! :D
It's totally amazing.:o

Awesome editor, btw. :)
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nullsquared » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:26 pm

Azgur wrote:Is there anything left your portals don't do? :D
They don't eliminate bugs. In fact, they create them. In very, very large magnitudes :cry:

:lol:
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by Kencho » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:01 pm

nullsquared wrote:
Azgur wrote:Is there anything left your portals don't do? :D
They don't eliminate bugs. In fact, they create them. In very, very large magnitudes :cry:

:lol:
Yeah, that's what happens when you mess around with physics laws and wormholes :P Remember Half-life? Those portals also spawned "bugs" :lol:
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nikki » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:24 am

Hmm? Are you using the 'volume' (like shadow volume) idea for the portal-lighting? It looks pretty cool. :D
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by jacmoe » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:15 pm

Did you see this? -> AsciiPortal :)
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by Kencho » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:32 pm

Some people has too much free time :lol:

The fun fact is that I used to do games like these when I was a kid! :lol:
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nikki » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:57 am

There's also a Flash portal (no pun intended): http://portal.wecreatestuff.com/
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by bharling » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:51 pm

Just popped by to say its looking absolutely amazing in the latest screens - good work null!

on the subject of flash games and portals - check out this, now I reckon this would be a great concept to have in portalized:

http://www.cleoag.ru/labs/flex/parkseasons/

probably programmatically impossible to do time travel through portals of course..
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nullsquared » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:57 pm

bharling wrote:Just popped by to say its looking absolutely amazing in the latest screens - good work null!

on the subject of flash games and portals - check out this, now I reckon this would be a great concept to have in portalized:

http://www.cleoag.ru/labs/flex/parkseasons/

probably programmatically impossible to do time travel through portals of course..
Nope, we've been discussing having time portals, and we definitely might (perhaps not in the first version, however). Basically, you "set" the portal, and when you walk through it, everything will be in the past, according to when you "set" the portal. You'll even see yourself doing whatever you did, etc.
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by Halifax » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:39 am

nullsquared wrote:Nope, we've been discussing having time portals, and we definitely might (perhaps not in the first version, however). Basically, you "set" the portal, and when you walk through it, everything will be in the past, according to when you "set" the portal. You'll even see yourself doing whatever you did, etc.
That would be an absolutely awesome feature. I must say, nullsquared, thus far this game has me more excited than most commercial games.
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by bharling » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:34 pm

nullsquared wrote: Nope, we've been discussing having time portals, and we definitely might (perhaps not in the first version, however). Basically, you "set" the portal, and when you walk through it, everything will be in the past, according to when you "set" the portal. You'll even see yourself doing whatever you did, etc.
Whoa :) awesome .. My one question is - how on earth would you then interact in the past? could you set a time portal, do some stuff, go back through the portal and kill yourself before you go back through? my brain hurts already... its unsolvable paradox time methinks :|
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nullsquared » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:01 pm

bharling wrote:
nullsquared wrote: Nope, we've been discussing having time portals, and we definitely might (perhaps not in the first version, however). Basically, you "set" the portal, and when you walk through it, everything will be in the past, according to when you "set" the portal. You'll even see yourself doing whatever you did, etc.
Whoa :) awesome .. My one question is - how on earth would you then interact in the past? could you set a time portal, do some stuff, go back through the portal and kill yourself before you go back through? my brain hurts already... its unsolvable paradox time methinks :|
Check this out: http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=50422

Once you check out at least the first level, keep reading: basically, instead of a door that takes you to the beginning of the level, it's a portal that takes you to an arbitrary point in the past (could be the beginning, if you set the portal in the beginning).
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by Praetor » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:43 pm

My guess is you needn't worry about time paradoxes... Unless your next project is to tackle a "Time Continuity Engine." My notion would be once you pass through the portal to the past you are part of that time period and changing things will not affect the future actions that led you back in time to change things... Yeah, my head hurts too now.
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nullsquared » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:09 pm

Praetor wrote:My guess is you needn't worry about time paradoxes... Unless your next project is to tackle a "Time Continuity Engine." My notion would be once you pass through the portal to the past you are part of that time period and changing things will not affect the future actions that led you back in time to change things... Yeah, my head hurts too now.
Well, the project is a combination of portals/gravity/time manipulation. Therefore, time paradoxes do need to be tackled. I'll take them the same way other games do - if your past self doesn't make it into the time portal, then you've caused a paradox (which means you can't be there to cause the paradox in the first place, which means you CAN be there, which means you can't, etc.)
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by Praetor » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:39 pm

Well that works, in a simplistic way I suppose. Almost any interaction with the past has the potential to cause a paradox.
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by bharling » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:00 pm

nullsquared wrote: Well, the project is a combination of portals/gravity/time manipulation. Therefore, time paradoxes do need to be tackled. I'll take them the same way other games do - if your past self doesn't make it into the time portal, then you've caused a paradox (which means you can't be there to cause the paradox in the first place, which means you CAN be there, which means you can't, etc.)
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dont drive yourself round the bend trying to get time-travel working null :D
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by subquantum » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:19 pm

The problem with both portals /and/ time travel is that when you introduce portals, you've already rejected such silly notions as "conservation of momentum" :)

Now, if you just had regions where time /passed/ more quickly/slowly, without actually allowing backwards time travel, that'd be self-consistent, and doable as long as you a) have only one observer, or b) all your observers are in a privileged reference frame - ie, when walking through a "slow zone" you see yourself slow down, rather than everything else speed up. Also, this is only self-consistent when you don't have portals. If you have something with mass m and velocity v enter a portal where time passes at 1, and exit where time passes at T, then its kenetic energy goes from mv^2 to m(v/T)^2. Going from a zone with normal time to a zone with half-time through a portal would quadruple the energy. Still doable in a simulation, of course, but you could arrange for situations where you generate waaayy more energy than you put in. Just like normal portals allow.

Maybe I should take a physics minor :/
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nullsquared » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:28 pm

No, these aren't time speed portals. Simply portals to the past (the past being the point in time you actually "set" the portal - it's a one way thing).
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by subquantum » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:42 pm

Yeah, I was just going off on my own tangent :)

As for resolving paradoxes... I presume you take snapshots of the world at various times for when you go back/forward? What if instead of taking the "Back to the Future" route, you take the Chrono-wars (ZZT) route where every trip into the past "forks" the timeline? In practice, this means that when something goes back in time, you'd save the original kinematics history, and then let the new one go its course. By going back through this time portal, you'd restore the original history and save the alternate... It'd probably get complicated when things that aren't players go through the portals, but it's fun to think about :p
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nullsquared » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:07 pm

You never "go to the future."

You can only go back.

You place a time portal at 3:00. You go into it at 3:15. You can now see everything that happened (including yourself) in the past 15 minutes. The problem (and fun) is that you can interact with these events, which might cause your past self not to go into the portal when 3:15 occurs again - if this happens, then you've effectively blocked yourself from entering the portal at 3:15, which means you couldn't have entered it to block yourself from entering it to begin with. No forks necessary.
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by Kencho » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:55 pm

Sounds like checkpoint/quicksave portals to me, which is a concept most of us already have in our minds, so I don't see why they would be so troublesome ;)
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by VictorMoran » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:23 am

nullsquared wrote:You place a time portal at 3:00. You go into it at 3:15. You can now see everything that happened (including yourself) in the past 15 minutes. The problem (and fun) is that you can interact with these events, which might cause your past self not to go into the portal when 3:15 occurs again - if this happens, then you've effectively blocked yourself from entering the portal at 3:15, which means you couldn't have entered it to block yourself from entering it to begin with. No forks necessary.
Oh man it start to sound like when Beef stole the time travel machine and Marty came back to an alternate reality. Huff now my brain hurts
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by nullsquared » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:34 am

Kencho wrote:Sounds like checkpoint/quicksave portals to me, which is a concept most of us already have in our minds, so I don't see why they would be so troublesome ;)
No. If you're at 3:15 right now and go back to 3:00, the next 15 minutes you experience will be an exact replica of what you and other objects did in those 15 minutes. The only problem will be that you'll be able to interact with those actions, which may cause paradoxes (such as your past self not entering the time portal when 3:15 arrives, which means you can't be there to begin with).
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by VictorMoran » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:37 am

I think it is eassier than that, you only have to implement a Flux capacitor, and drive the DeLorian, I mean the portal, at an exact 88 miles per hour? :D
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Re: Portalized (light transfer, working towards summer release)

Post by Praetor » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:10 am

nullsquared wrote:The problem (and fun) is that you can interact with these events, which might cause your past self not to go into the portal when 3:15 occurs again - if this happens, then you've effectively blocked yourself from entering the portal at 3:15, which means you couldn't have entered it to block yourself from entering it to begin with. No forks necessary.
nullsquared wrote:No. If you're at 3:15 right now and go back to 3:00, the next 15 minutes you experience will be an exact replica of what you and other objects did in those 15 minutes. The only problem will be that you'll be able to interact with those actions, which may cause paradoxes (such as your past self not entering the time portal when 3:15 arrives, which means you can't be there to begin with).
Ummm, and then what? Are you still working on that, or do you have a plan for what happens in that eventuality? I mean technically, ANY influence on your past self would likely cause a paradox, because going through even at a slightly different time, different direction, or different speed changes the conditions that you entered the past, changing the the *you* that is there affecting the other *you*... But, you could get as detailed or simplistic as you want with your paradox detection. The real question I wanted to know was what happened once one was detected? A game over screen, or maybe a simulated tear in space-time (which is the ultimate portal I suppose)?
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