GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New demo: 3rd July 2011)

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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New video! Levels 1-6 done!)

Post by spacegaier »

The new .EXE did not help either (BTW: it is always declared to be a virus by my anti virus software [Info]). I tried to run it with both the original openAL.dll and without (so that it probably picks up the one put on my PC via the installer).

I had another look at the main.log (that still seems to be the same as before) and realized that it only lists two available audio devices, but the one I am actually using is not there. So I disabled the current one and selected one of those listed in the log, but unfortunately that did not change anything either :( .
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New video! Levels 1-6 done!)

Post by nikki »

Hmm, this is weird. Try this version: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/535792/Files/gr ... -win32.zip
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New video! Levels 1-6 done!)

Post by spacegaier »

Okay, anti virus is not moaning anymore, but game still not running. Logs look the same.
13:25:27: *-*-* Creating OpenAL
13:25:27: OpenAL Version: 1.1
13:25:27: Available Devices
13:25:27: -----------------
13:25:27: * SB X-Fi Audio [DC00]
13:25:27: * Generic Software
13:25:27: Choosing: Generic Software
13:25:27: Supported Formats
13:25:27: -----------------
13:25:27: * AL_FORMAT_MONO16, Monophonic Sound
13:25:28: * AL_FORMAT_STEREO16, Stereo Sound
13:25:28: * AL_FORMAT_QUAD16, 4 Channel Sound
13:25:28: * AL_FORMAT_51CHN16, 5.1 Surround Sound
13:25:28: * AL_FORMAT_61CHN16, 6.1 Surround Sound
13:25:28: * AL_FORMAT_71CHN16, 7.1 Surround Sound
13:25:28: EAX 2.0 Detected
13:25:28: EFX Extension Found
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New video! Levels 1-6 done!)

Post by nikki »

Hmm, a friend of mine had the same problem, and we managed to fix it for him. What worked was: Install OpenAL runtime and Python 2.7 runtime, remove both openal32.dll and python27.dll from bin/release (if they're there) and running the game.

If it still doesn't work, run cmd, cd to bin/release and then run the game then look at the console output (maybe there's some standard output that didn't go into the log file that's useful).

EDIT: Okay, why is bbcode for link not working? :/
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New video! Levels 1-6 done!)

Post by jacmoe »

/* fixed link */
/* Less noise. More signal. */
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New video! Levels 1-6 done!)

Post by spacegaier »

No real clue why, but now it works. I had installed OpenAL some posts before already, and also already had python27 installed for a while.

Great job on the game BTW. Will definetly play it a bit more than I just did :) .
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New video! Levels 1-6 done!)

Post by nikki »

Thanks jacmoe!

And thanks a lot spacegaier for trying the game and updating me on the results the past few days. Must've been annoying. :P Now that I have the Windows build/release process in place I'll try to release demos more often.
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New demo: 3rd July 2011(

Post by nikki »

After yet another long break (busy with college preparations, drumming and fitness stuff (just hit the gym :D )... also it's been hard to stay motivated) I've gotten some more work done on the game. It's been a productive week (if the github graphs speak the truth :P ). Solved some issues with the Windows version, fixed numerous bugs, improved Player control, and worked on two new levels! Here's a new preview video I made:

[vimeo]25993487[/vimeo]

You can get the new demo here. Now all you need is OpenAL (DirectX too if you choose Direct3D in the graphics options instead of OpenGL)!

I've realised that there are enough obstacles now to allow numerous level design ideas. I'm sure there are many creative ways to create fun puzzles involving the existing obstacles that I'd never be able to come up with! And then there's Python scripting, which allows interesting scripting sequences. For example, in one of the levels, when you pick up a key, a bunch of walls rise up to surround you, forming a trap, and you are 'ambushed' by a bunch of moving bombs. Even the opening sequence with the camera motion and GraLL turning on and breaking through the glass is completely scripted - the game just applies torques to GraLL at the right times.

So I've decided that for now I will just concentrate on making levels - trying to come up with creative ways to use the obstacles. Once I have enough levels I can arrange them in order of difficulty. The really hard ones can be put into a separate 'bonus levels' section.
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New demo: 3rd July 2011)

Post by jacmoe »

Awesome to see that you're back on GraLL! :)
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New demo: 3rd July 2011)

Post by chaosavy »

Played a bit (least I could do after using your btOgre).

Neat game, cool concept, lots of potential

Some notes/observations/etc:

I immediatly tried to push the other barriers (the ones where you start, and that Grall pushes one to get loose), but found I couldn't budge them (what's up with that?)
cool tutorialless tutorial :)
the wooden crates don't seem to fit
too bad that Grall can't pull crates
too bad no key to have Grall slowdown and eventually stop in place


Game is fun, but can be a bit too frustrating at points. I gave up at level 6 when you have to jump onto that moving platform. Tried about 10 or more times. I suppose it depends on what target you are after. For me a bit too frustrating, for more hardcore puzzlers maybe not. I think the ideal mix would be puzzles that don't require a re-start or are not "deadly." Death's main consequence in this game is having to try again, it is basically a punishment, often times the reason why you fail (fall off edge, or move crate off edge or make it blocked) is due to control issues (the controls themselves are fine, its just the nature of the camera and Grall's movement that it can be imprecise), this I think is a bit too frustrating when the puzzles punish the player with death.
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New demo: 3rd July 2011)

Post by nikki »

chaosavy wrote:Played a bit (least I could do after using your btOgre).

Neat game, cool concept, lots of potential
Thanks. :D
I immediatly tried to push the other barriers (the ones where you start, and that Grall pushes one to get loose), but found I couldn't budge them (what's up with that?)
Haha, well just the one in front breaks off... I guess that one was looser. :P I could make it so the others can break off too though...
the wooden crates don't seem to fit
Hmm, you mean fit the style of the game? The thing is, I could have completely 'free physics' Crates, but that doesn't allow some really interesting grid puzzle types (although I guess it would open up other possibilities).
too bad that Grall can't pull crates
That's part of what makes the puzzles fun - you can't get Crates into corners. It's like sokoban.
too bad no key to have Grall slowdown and eventually stop in place
Haha yeah... I guess it being a heavy ball makes it pretty hard to control. :/ I've tweaked the damping/torque curve and it's a lot better than it was at some point, but I think there's room for improvement.
Game is fun, but can be a bit too frustrating at points. I gave up at level 6 when you have to jump onto that moving platform. Tried about 10 or more times. I suppose it depends on what target you are after. For me a bit too frustrating, for more hardcore puzzlers maybe not. I think the ideal mix would be puzzles that don't require a re-start or are not "deadly." Death's main consequence in this game is having to try again, it is basically a punishment, often times the reason why you fail (fall off edge, or move crate off edge or make it blocked) is due to control issues (the controls themselves are fine, its just the nature of the camera and Grall's movement that it can be imprecise), this I think is a bit too frustrating when the puzzles punish the player with death.
This was actually one of the main things I was worried about the game - that the ball was too frustrating to control compared to say, a usual third person human player character. I gave it to a few local friends to try out and watched them play, tweaked the controls and kept testing, and eventually I think it got to a point where the controls take a bit getting used to but aren't too hard and they progressed through the levels pretty smoothly.

I think I should work on the difficulty curve - maybe the levels are just getting harder too fast.
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New demo: 3rd July 2011)

Post by chaosavy »

Wooden crates not fitting, I mean in the visual sense: the setting is a sci-fi environment, test lab etc, and here's a wooden crate (maybe I'm in a crate warehouse?). I don't know if you played portal, but think bacfk to their "crates" they were neat looking future cubes.

I don't think that not being able to pull the crates makes it more fun. However it is your game so ofcourse feel free to ignore me, but here are my reasons:

more control over environment/environment more dynamic = more fun
more ability to recover from mistakes (less self destruct) = more fun
could make for more interesting puzzles/reusing of crates/having to pull them in some instances = more fun

maybe the levels are just getting harder too fast.
So the two puzzles that made the game frustrating/not fun were: early level, there is a moving platform to 3 green bombs that I have to use crates to blow up, the crates have to be precisely moved otherwise they get stuck, in experimentation I got em stuck, if I could pull em I could try again feeling clever at how I figured out the puzzle, but I felt dumb that it took me so many tries - not your fault ofcourse that I'm dumb ;)

2nd jumping puzzle onto moving platform, don't know if there is a better solution, but gave up, timing the player so get onto that platform is a bit too precise, maybe make the platform bigger or something.
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Re: GraLL 2 - WIP Topic (New demo: 3rd July 2011)

Post by strychnine213 »

I love the way the GUI looks. Nice job!
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