[SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Assaf Raman »

I think that when the version will be out - we should put the iPhone demos in the app store.
The new sample framework looks really good.
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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Wolfmanfx »

At the moment it is a little bit fat ~56MB

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by masterfalcon »

Wolfmanfx wrote:At the moment it is a little bit fat ~56MB
And 41 of that is from textures, models, etc.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Wolfmanfx »

Yep and not all of them used for the samples which work on the iphone. It would be great when the team release the ipa with 1.7 :)

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by masterfalcon »

Wolfmanfx wrote:Yep and not all of them used for the samples which work on the iphone. It would be great when the team release the ipa with 1.7 :)
I'll try to create a custom one tonight. Remove unneeded resources and samples.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by sinbad »

Great work masterfalcon.

My internet access is highly restricted here at the Qt conference (on account on it being more expensive than gold), but I'll look to merge this branch back into trunk soon after I return, hopefully the weekend.

One question in the meantime, there's some new media in the branch (penguin model in the DynTex demo springs to mind, and did anyone else have a missing texture on that?), do we know the origin / usage conditions of all of it? We just need to make sure credits are given.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by masterfalcon »

sinbad wrote:Great work masterfalcon.

My internet access is highly restricted here at the Qt conference (on account on it being more expensive than gold), but I'll look to merge this branch back into trunk soon after I return, hopefully the weekend.

One question in the meantime, there's some new media in the branch (penguin model in the DynTex demo springs to mind, and did anyone else have a missing texture on that?), do we know the origin / usage conditions of all of it? We just need to make sure credits are given.
I talked to omniter about that a couple days ago. He forgot to check in the material file but was on the case with lightning speed!

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by omniter »

The penguin model is a free gift to the community from me. You don't need my permission to use it. Credit is not required, but would be appreciated. :)

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by masterfalcon »

I've got a trimmed down build that is 25.6 MB (11.5 zipped, still not small enough for EDGE or 3G downloading). Would putting it up on the App Store be something that we want to do? I could publish it under my account as a free download.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Assaf Raman »

Yes, free goes without saying.
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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Wolfmanfx »

Why not Unity3D also have a demo on the appstore which is greater than 10MB.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Assaf Raman »

You can really size down the FreeImage dependency by removing all of the formats except jpeg, dds, png, tiff and BMP, the other formats are hardly used and increase the size.
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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by sinbad »

Free demo on the app store sounds great to me.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by masterfalcon »

Assaf Raman wrote:You can really size down the FreeImage dependency by removing all of the formats except jpeg, dds, png, tiff and BMP, the other formats are hardly used and increase the size.
Good idea. That shaved another 600k off!

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Noman »

Hey...

Couldn't understand from the last posts... Whats the status of the project? Merging into head or still developing in branch until demo porting is complete?
I finished my GSoC project for now (just merged into head) and would like to help finishing the work done on this one... Any TODO list of demos to port or something similar?

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by omniter »

Not all the demos have been ported to the new framework, and I'm not sure what sinbad wants to do with them at this point. As far as documentation is concerned, I'm just going to write an article primarily for the team about how to use the framework, but no tutorials, since we won't be encouraging users to use it.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by syedhs »

masterfalcon wrote:
Assaf Raman wrote:You can really size down the FreeImage dependency by removing all of the formats except jpeg, dds, png, tiff and BMP, the other formats are hardly used and increase the size.
Good idea. That shaved another 600k off!
I managed to shave off 1MB by just including support for jpeg, dds, png.
1) DDS - is a must, friendly to your GPU RAM.
2) JPEG - okay sometimes you are lazy since this format is very widely known.
3) PNG - losless compression.
TIFF is probably too archaic, and not really meant for production unless for small number of applications.
Why do you need any other formats? :wink:
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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Noman »

omniter wrote:Not all the demos have been ported to the new framework, and I'm not sure what sinbad wants to do with them at this point. As far as documentation is concerned, I'm just going to write an article primarily for the team about how to use the framework, but no tutorials, since we won't be encouraging users to use it.
I see. So maybe I'll wait until you write the article, and then I'll port demos over. Will also be a test case for the article itself, rather than just the framework.

Why do you say that we won't be encouraging users to use this new framework? Of course its not an application framework, but if they are making small isolated feature tests (like tutorials or demos) then the sample framework is good for their task, isn't it?

As for the IPhone size thing. I would guess that since the resolution is smaller, we can also shrink the textures (at least by 2 in each dimensions) without losing visual quality. Would be a bit harder to handle SDK wise (still need to keep the originals in SVN, so the best idea is that the shrinking would be part of the packaging process), but could save a few MBs I'm guessing... Has that been tried?

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Shadow007 »

Noman wrote:
omniter wrote:Not all the demos have been ported to the new framework.../quote]
I see. So maybe I'll wait until you write the article, and then I'll port demos over. Will also be a test case for the article itself, rather than just the framework.
Noman, I'm pretty sure your own GSOC demo was not ported to the new Samples framework ... I guess it should be the first one to be added :)

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by omniter »

Noman wrote:Why do you say that we won't be encouraging users to use this new framework? Of course its not an application framework, but if they are making small isolated feature tests (like tutorials or demos) then the sample framework is good for their task, isn't it?
It was agreed a while back that new users will not be learning OGRE using this new framework, and so no tutorials will be written. The article I am writing will be targeted at exactly those people you mentioned. :)

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Noman »

Fair enough.

As for porting my demo, I actually don't want to do it right now because it requires to merge my project into the branch. I prefer to port the demo to the new framework after the merge is done, will make life a lot easier. What I prefer doing is porting a few demos to the new framework if there is still time before the merge into trunk.
Is there a timeline set for the merge?

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by sinbad »

omniter wrote:
Noman wrote:Why do you say that we won't be encouraging users to use this new framework? Of course its not an application framework, but if they are making small isolated feature tests (like tutorials or demos) then the sample framework is good for their task, isn't it?
It was agreed a while back that new users will not be learning OGRE using this new framework, and so no tutorials will be written. The article I am writing will be targeted at exactly those people you mentioned. :)
Bingo. When users are trying to learn how to create their own applications with Ogre, they typically objected to even using ExampleApplication because it 'hid' too much from them. I didn't really understand this point of view, since it's not exactly hard to read one or two headers to see what they do, but I've stopped arguing with it and just accepted that it's a common opinion, and newcomers would rather learn using a self-contained, end-to-end example with no sample framework. That's what any future tutorials will focus on from now on.

People who just want to make new demos for Ogre, or who want to try something out and don't want to build an app from the ground up will definitely want to use the new samples framework, so we need an article on that too. But it's important to realise that's not the same group of people that come to the tutorials wanting to make their own app from scratch.
Noman wrote:Is there a timeline set for the merge?
I'm doing it now. It's a bit messy both because of the cross-merge, because SF is slow, and that SVN isn't the best merge tool around, but I'm getting there. Should be done sometime over the weekend.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by sinbad »

Merge is now done. I hope I've done it correctly, SVN threw all kinds of wobblers and required lots of stupid manual fixing up, on top of the usual conflict resolution so it wasn't as automated as I would have liked. One of the reasons I want to switch to a DVCS soon.

Not all the samples are converted yet, ones which need more work:
  • TextureFX
  • Terrain
Ones which haven't been converted at all:
  • Compositor
  • Deferred Shading
  • Instancing
  • Shadows
  • Ocean
  • Paging
  • ParticleGS
  • PCZ
Any assistance with those will be welcome, I expect Noman will do the Deferred Shading one at least.

I think I may change the dependencies too - currently the samples plugins depend on the browser, but the browser is what is launched so if you update some code & press F5 you won't necessarily recompile the sample plugin you changed. I think it would be better to have the browser depend on the plugins instead (there's no linking to worry about, just build order).

Nice work everyone anyway, especially omniter of course :)

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by Wolfmanfx »

After the merge the static build option in cmake does not build for me on windows and osx (fresh checkout from trunk) normal builds work.

[edit]

more detils has todo that cmake do not add all samples include dirs because in SampleBrowser.h there are explicit references to the sample headers.

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Re: [SoC 2009 - Accepted] Unified Samples Framework & Browser

Post by masterfalcon »

Wolfmanfx wrote:After the merge the static build option in cmake does not build for me on windows and osx (fresh checkout from trunk) normal builds work.

[edit]

more detils has todo that cmake do not add all samples include dirs because in SampleBrowser.h there are explicit references to the sample headers.
That makes sense. I only tested it on iPhone. I'll try to fix this tonight, though I don't have a windows machine to try it out on.

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