General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

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General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by KungFooMasta » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:11 pm

http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/pres ... S10PR.mspx

Anybody try it out?

Being able to step forward and backwards sounds pretty cool, and support for multiple monitors definately a plus.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Klaim » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:25 pm

Downloading the Premium trial version. Will try it and certainly use a version when I get back to my game (at the end of the year I think). I'll certainly play with it in the meantime.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by jacmoe » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:32 pm

Professional, Premium, Ultimate ??

What's wrong with Standard, Professional, Enterprise? :)
I guess it doesn't sound cool enough.. :wink:

Thanks for the heads up.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Klaim » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:39 pm

I think it's to align with the Windows Seven versions, but we know that names are all about marketing...

I just regret that the Professional version don't have the optimization tools in it... I don't need other Premium's tools and it's really too expensive for me. (not using VS at work)
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by jacmoe » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:47 pm

One thing I am looking forward to is just doing a good old-fashioned xcopy install. :)
Application-local runtime install:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 00%29.aspx

But, using vcredist you are able to run your application with a different working directory, aren't you?
And you shave off some additional size if the user has the vc10 runtimes already.

Now, on to learning how to make Ogre Appwizards for VC10 .. :wink:
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by jacmoe » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:54 am

I've heard that you can actually develop in Visual Studio 2010 and downtarget it to vc9. :)
That's rather nice, using the native multi-targeting functionality of VS 2010.

<edit>
Yes, we can:
tooAwesome.png
tooAwesome.png (21.17 KiB) Viewed 2780 times
Heh - and it works in Visual C++ Express as well! :D
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by jacmoe » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:11 am

Colour me impressed! :)

I converted the Ogitor solution (16 projects), and the class view tab was almost instantly available.
I then right-clicked a QString, and was taken to the right Qt header.
Then I clicked on Ogre::String and was taken to OgrePrerequisites.

Two things which VS2008 never could do.

And the editor window is very readable - they chose a good font. :)

So I am looking at my new development environment of choice now.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by _tommo_ » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:51 pm

Uhm, still trying it...

for now im not so much impressed: it is slower and less reactive than VC2008, and worst of all really takes ages to compile, Ogre 1.7 Debug+Release rebuild required 40 mins.
The interface is nicer than the Beta2, but Visual Assist X is not working.
Needs some other tests...
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by betajaen » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:18 pm

Downloading it from DreamSpark.

You can install it alongside Visual Studio 2008, right?
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by _tommo_ » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:37 pm

Yes, it works without uninstalling VS2008... luckily.

I can't get my project to work, i get an error in "memcpy.asm" in Ogre::Root::Root(), that according to the call stack happens in a string copy. Strange...
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Klaim » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:40 pm

Yes, it works without uninstalling VS2008... luckily.
It have been possible since VS6.0 without any problems. (each Vs installed separately on the same computer)

Your compilation time seems wrong to me. Maybe you don't have a multi-core cpu? Even on my Athlon X2 4200+ (2 cores) I get less than 20 minutes of compilation time for Ogre.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by jacmoe » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:13 pm

I find it faster and more responsive than 2008. Both the compiling and the interface.
And the intellisense is actually working, so no need to VAX it. :)
Why don't they buy Tomato? (Maybe they did?)
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by mkultra333 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:16 pm

I'm pretty happy with VS2008 Express, so I have no intention of upgrading any time soon. I'm still on XP anyway, so I don't know if I could even if I wanted to. In the past new releases of Visual Studio have been a pain to me, as I'm forced to upgrade as various other open source projects I follow or test start requiring the latest VS version.

Someone mentioned how the lowest version doesn't have all the code optimizing of the other versions. Is the lowest version free? Are the missing optimizations things that VS2008 Express has, or does the lowest version of VS2010 produce code at least as optimized as VS2008 Express?
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Klaim » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:40 pm

And the intellisense is actually working, so no need to VAX it.
Note sure, VAX has a beta version specific for VS2010 but I don't know what feature they added/removed.

At least, VAX is really better at colouring the code, allowing your to generate code from custom scripts, etc. So for C++ devs at least I think it's still worth. But maybe not at the current price of VAX :evil: I think I'll drop VAX too just because of the price.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Kojack » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:42 pm

Is the lowest version free? Are the missing optimizations things that VS2008 Express has, or does the lowest version of VS2010 produce code at least as optimized as VS2008 Express?
The versions are:
- Express (free)
- Professional ($799)
- Premium ($5469)
- Ultimate ($11899)

The new intellitrace feature (historical debugger which can replay your app to see what led up to crashes and what the user did) is only in Ultimate.
Things like profiling, code coverage, code metrics, etc are only in Premium and Ultimate.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by _tommo_ » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:57 pm

Klaim wrote:
Yes, it works without uninstalling VS2008... luckily.
It have been possible since VS6.0 without any problems. (each Vs installed separately on the same computer)

Your compilation time seems wrong to me. Maybe you don't have a multi-core cpu? Even on my Athlon X2 4200+ (2 cores) I get less than 20 minutes of compilation time for Ogre.
I have an E6600, and in fact i noticed that VC used the same core for all the Ogre build... this was not true with my project anyway, and that was indeed faster.
About VAX, it can be useless for C# but i can't do without it in C++ , the default behaviour of IntelliSense is just doing nothing.
And anyway also VAX could be much better, for example Eclipse does magic with Java code!

Anyway i gave up for now from trying to use VC10 for my main development, there are no good reasons for the effort.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by MrD » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:12 pm

Kojack wrote: - Ultimate ($11899)

The new intellitrace feature (historical debugger which can replay your app to see what led up to crashes and what the user did) is only in Ultimate.
Holy f#*$ing shit! IntelliTrace sounds awesome, but not take out a small mortgage awesome.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by jacmoe » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:29 pm

Kojack wrote:The new intellitrace feature (historical debugger which can replay your app to see what led up to crashes and what the user did) is only in Ultimate.
Things like profiling, code coverage, code metrics, etc are only in Premium and Ultimate.
Luckily, there's good free tools to do those things, so I think Professional would be enough for my uses.
And I really don't need my hand to be held by VAX - I find it annoyingly intrusive. But I'm probably the only one! :P
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Kojack » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:40 pm

On the downside (apart from the massive price), intellitrace only works on managed languages, not native c++. :(
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Kojack » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:07 am

I get the distinct perception MicroShaft has abandoned the single developer market.
If that was true, they wouldn't have already released 2010 Express Edition.
(Cool side fact, the wikipedia page for Visual Studio Express mentions Ogre as an example of an open source project which supports Express)

I'm downloading my free copy of 2010 Professional right now. It's handy being an MSDNAA member. :)
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by jacmoe » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:23 am

Kojack wrote:I'm downloading my free copy of 2010 Professional right now. It's handy being an MSDNAA member. :)
Please, write a small review when you've tried it.
I'd like to know if it's worth the purchase. :)
(I need to save up for it)
I know that you could upgrade to it from the free express edition earlier, and I hope you can now.
You only pay the upgrade price then. :)
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Kojack » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:27 am

I've been downloading it for 5 hours, and it's only 33%.
MSDNAA uses a special downloading app, and it sucks. It lost it's connection or something at 22% and just sat there doing nothing until I woke up half an hour ago and checked it.

I'll give Ogre a try as soon as I get it. I could do that with the beta (got it installed too), but I'd rather use the released version before making a real judgement.

Unfortunately Ogre won't be able to take advantage of some of the cool features like c++0x stuff, because then support for vs2008 and older gcc would have to be dropped, or code is doubled up.
Although that could be ok for special cases, apparently the new rvalue references can speed up code.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by jjp » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:23 am

Since the Ultimate Beta is available at MSDNAA I have the faint hope that Ultimate will also be on MSDNAA at some point..
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by Kojack » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:55 am

msdnaa always only release the professional version (2003, 2005, 2008 and now 2010), express version and betas of higher ones.

The project format has changed again, it's now .vcxproj instead of .vcproj. It's still xml based, but a different schema. I'm going to have to change my ruby script which modifies ogre's projects to suit my framework.
Ruby is great for modifying vcproj files.
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Re: General Availability of Visual Studio 2010

Post by MrD » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:37 am

Kojack wrote:I'm downloading my free copy of 2010 Professional right now. It's handy being an MSDNAA member. :)
Isn't it just :) It's not out on the UK MSDN AA yet though :(
jjp wrote:Since the Ultimate Beta is available at MSDNAA I have the faint hope that Ultimate will also be on MSDNAA at some point..
Unlikely, we generally get the Professional versions.
Kojack wrote:On the downside (apart from the massive price), intellitrace only works on managed languages, not native c++. :(
And now it definitely hasn't even become worth me taking out a small mortgage ;)
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