Paying the bills

[Zonder]

On the education part bronzebeard does have a point.

When I read CVs I don't bother with the education part other than a glance it's irrelevant. What matters is what they have actually accomplished.

I have had people with degrees and they can't program hardly and people with no qualifications whatsoever that are actually geniuses at it.

So far I have found the self taught programmer has been better than formally trained ones. There is exception both ways but overall self taught has been better.

[syedhs]

Ultimately it is you yourself.. some people managed to produce games even if they have full time job. Some people cannot program efficiently even if they are working on the games 100% because of a lot of factors. Probably the best way is first to envision simple but good games (people love it), and ship it. Probably a simple mobile games, because simple pc games always turns out not simple at all And when you does ship a games, there is always this extra energy reading all the feedbacks from the gamers, bad or good - they really don't matter. It really spells a big world of difference..

[warlaan]

My biggest flaw is I hate working with other programmers [...]

Maybe you would have less of a problem working with other programmers if you had a different attitude towards work. (<- Not a sarcastic remark but an honest suggestion)
You claim that self-sacrifice was the only way to avoid vaporware - I think it is the best way to make you intolerant of suggestions. I mean: if your work is the only thing that you can be proud of in your life, you wouldn't want some colleague to tell you what to change and risk them ruining your effort.
While I agree that you need determination and pride in your decisions, more often than not you need to be able to make rational decisions and be fine with them. If you want to live on game projects then maybe not every project can be a super-hardcore linux-only title. You will have to change some aspects to appeal to your audience. I know I couldn't do that if I didn't have my supporting wife and friends.
Also: switching from work mode to leisure mode helps me see aspects of the game from different angles. More often than not, things that make a lot of sense for the developers are just not understandable for players who don't know your game by heart.

[syedhs]

Actually I can see the reasons of one-man-show as programmer

The one with highest motivation is you - it is your idea, it is your dream. So go for it!
You don't have to spend time telling your vision to others (and get the other party interested, trullly interested).
You don't have to teach others about your code, design. The other programmers can only ask you certain number of questions / week before you get agitated.
If you need a partner, it is the artist - 2d or 3d artist. Or sound engineer. But not another programmer.

But of course, once the project size is getting bigger - you should get help.. but all the initial dirty works must be done first.. by YOU.

[warlaan]

The one with highest motivation is you - it is your idea, it is your dream. So go for it!
You don't have to spend time telling your vision to others (and get the other party interested, trullly interested).
You don't have to teach others about your code, design. The other programmers can only ask you certain number of questions / week before you get agitated.
If you need a partner, it is the artist - 2d or 3d artist. Or sound engineer. But not another programmer.

I agree with that list, but to be honest I see all four of these as reasons NOT to work alone.
Yes it is your idea, but if you don't want to play game development lottery like the boxed-game-companies of yore (i.e. about 5 years ago) you need to develop towards your target group. I am not saying that you should sell out or that you have to do meaningless casual games, but if you really just care for your own taste you might end up with a game that many people almost like as opposed to a game that maybe doesn't represent your taste 100% but has a lot more fans and customers.
Yes, you don't "need" to tell your idea to others - you might even not have someone to discuss your ideas. I can only tell about myself, but I usually achieve way better results in a team where we bounce ideas off of each other.
Yes, you don't have to teach others about your code, but there also will be no one to teach you about your code. There is a reason why peer programming is quite successful even though it can get annoying as hell.
I guess I don't have to comment arrow 4, do I? At least from my point of view that is clearly not an advantage.

[bstone]

If you really just care about your own taste you can actually end up with another Wolfenstein 3D or Minecraft. So that's actually a good thing, often equally deadly though. Clones and spin-offs are much easier of course.

I don't see why bronzebeard's approach is debated that much. If you want to accomplish something you have to sit and do it. That's rather obvious. If you spend a big chunk of your time hanging around with your girlfriend or having fun with your friends you will accomplish much less (the time frame being equal). But I never recommend that approach to kids because only a few can successfully pull that off. It's much easier to survive doing stuff at your leisure but you might just end up with a few years wasted and very little result. If you dedicate yourself 99% to your mission then even if it fails financially, believe me, you will get much more out of it than if you'd have fun all that time and even sold a few hundred copies of your match-3 masterpiece.

Everyone decides for himself about what he's capable of and whether the sacrifice is worth it. But if we talk about efficiency here then locking down and dedicating oneself to the task is the most efficient way.

[Aspirer]

Great discussion guys! BTW do you guys have CS degree's?

[syedhs]

I dont have any degree - I get to work in the industry because of my programming passion (thanks god)

[warlaan]

I don't have an official degree in computer science, but I do have a certificate from a private school (games academy Berlin).

If you really just care about your own taste you can actually end up with another Wolfenstein 3D or Minecraft. So that's actually a good thing, often equally deadly though.

Yes, you CAN. That's what I meant with "game design lottery". If your idea is not the next Minecraft you are more likely to not find out until it is too late. In a team you have to discuss your ideas which will often save you from making mistakes.

I don't see why bronzebeard's approach is debated that much. If you want to accomplish something you have to sit and do it. That's rather obvious.

I think it's not obvious, it is deceiving.
How long would a good typist need to copy the code of an average game project? How long needs a programmer to write it?
The programmer will of course take way longer. Why? Because they don't just need to write it, they have to come up with it first.
So programming is not just about doing a specific amount of work, it is about solving problems and coming up with ideas.
It is at least very debatable if solving problems is easier without social contact. In know that talking to others about my ideas helps me solve problems, and my wife is among these "others".
Every evening we talk about what happened that day, and quite often I see a solution to her problems and she can help me with mine. Actually quite often just talking through the problem helps me find a solution.

The reason why I personally like to debate this issue and not just accept the differences between our opinions is because I know colleagues who seem to share this approach, and I know how hard that can be and how unreadable code can be when it is written under the assumption that no-one has to read and understand it.
Don't get me wrong, I honor your opinion. I just think it is dangerous to projects.

[bstone]

I believe that unreadable code has nothing to do with working alone. Any mature developer who learned the trade from the real life (as opposed to solely schools and books) will most likely come to writing readable and maintainable code even for small pet projects.

As I said that approach is not for beginners and requires a good deal of self-discipline in the first place. I personally have been on the both sides of the barricades. Worked on my projects in my spare time while having a day job - chasing two rabbits, didn't work. Locked myself down and worked hard - got great results, not breath-taking financially, but experience was priceless. Switched back to the path of the least resistance, got a family, got a kid - huge responsibility, huge bills But I remained a believer and didn't get another day job but started freelancing so I could have more spare time for my ideas. But I tell you what - years were flying like weeks and at one point it became obvious - the sense of accomplishment was lost completely, my projects I've been working on were aging fast and loosing their edge. Yes those were wonderful years and I ranked up in my freelancing career quite well but if we're talking about chasing our ideas then I can clearly tell that the progress can't even be compared to the days when I dedicated myself entirely to working on my stuff. And once you have kids you will likely find yourself in a constant "fight" for your spare time like I did.

I couldn't get back to bronzebeard's "I don't care about anything else" life-style anymore though but I found a way to cut through that by working in relatively short bursts when I allocate a month or two (depending on how much financial fat I've accumulated working on the recent freelance gigs) that I can dedicate to my ideas and I should say that it works amazingly well on all fronts. That's obviously the luxury of being a freelancer and I can hardly imagine another similar setup but it's good to keep that in mind if nothing else works for you.