something good is happening?

Design / architecture / roadmap discussions related to future of Ogre3D (version 2.0 and above)
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Thyrion
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by Thyrion » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:15 pm

was that the merge from 1.1 into 2.1 ?
https://bitbucket.org/sinbad/ogre/commi ... dd3975a534


Edit: ok, seems not to be the case
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by Kojack » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:41 pm

Around 2 weeks ago I tested Ogre 2.1 with mass batch rendering.
I got a tree mesh (from Blendswap) that had two materials (so two batches).
I placed 40,000 of the tree in a grid and assigned PBS materials to it (using placeholder textures like the rock normal and specular in the ogre media).
All up it was 80,000 batches and 62,000,000 triangles, with two 4 texture (albedo, specular, roughness, normal) PBS materials.
In a 64 bit build with 1680x1050 display on a geforce gtx 980 I got roughly 30fps. I didn't even use statics, it's dynamic items in dynamic scene nodes.

I just repeated the test with Unity 5.
Same tree mesh, same textures, same resolution, 64 bit build.
I turned off the skybox, all global illumination, etc. I couldn't find an equivalent to Ogre 2.1's PBS roughness map, so Unity had an advantage of only 3 textures per material instead of 4 in Ogre.
Final result: Unity 5 got 6fps.

Yeah, I'm liking this! :)

Of course there's probably some way to speed up Unity, I don't know. In both engine cases I just added 40000 meshes in a simple loop, no optimisations. Maybe unity is doing a heap of other stuff, no idea. I dropped the Unity quality combo box from Fantastic to only Good and it went to 7fps.

I'm now downloading Unreal 4.7.1. :)

Very unscientific testing, not really exactly equal conditions, but still, you kick ass Matias!

(Other advantage to Ogre 2.1: it doesn't force me to log in to an account to get approval to run the editor)
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by al2950 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:41 pm

@Kojack
:D, i like your post. Makes me feel good about resisting temptations from Unity and UE4! I know its not scientific and should be taken with a pinch of salt, but still :D. Interested in what UE4 makes of your scene!
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by xrgo » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:00 pm

Image
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by Kojack » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:32 pm

I tried Unreal. I have no @#$%ing clue how to spawn meshes procedurally, so I just started adding the tree by hand (in increasing size copy/pastes). I got up to 8000 trees (20% of the total needed) before the editor became too unresponsive to continue. I found a tutorial on using blueprint to spawn trees on a grid (with some randomness which I would remove), they proudly claimed no coding was required. But it was a huge mess of nodes that made no sense to me at first glance, whereas it's 5 simple lines in Ogre (3 in Unity).
I'll try it later (need sleep badly).

Regardless of how accurate the tests are, one thing is certain: Ogre 2.1 is no slouch at rendering. And things will only get better.
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by xrgo » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:33 pm

to join the VS
we made a quick test with a 760m.
we have truck modeled in blender
Unity 5: ~65 fps
Ogre 2.1: ~130 fps

Almost same view, same model, same texture, 1 directional light, sharp shadows

Same warning, it was just a quick dirty test, I guess unity has a lot more performance adjustments as well as ogre

anyways **feelsgoodmeme**
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Thyrion
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by Thyrion » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:49 pm

hahaha , you got me guys .... i like good fps :)
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by c6burns » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:57 pm

Unreal always struck me as the "you don't even need a coder" engine, but if you are a coder it seems to just get in your way. You know every commonly used scripting language? Too bad, we use our own (unrealscript). You know HLSL / GLSL? Too bad, connect these nodes together in a graph. To be honest I probably haven't given Unreal a fair shot, but I've used Havok Vision, Unity, CryEngine3 and then built my own framework with Ogre as renderer. Unreal has always been the one that interests me the least, though obviously it has been used to make some great titles.
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by Klaim » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:09 pm

It's true for any tool imposing their own idioms. Unity try to not but it still does. Even Ogre does but it have less impact than with game engines which by definition will touch all aspects of your game.
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by SRombauts » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:55 pm

Interesting results!

Would you mind sharing your test code so that we could try to reproduce those experiments with various assets, settings, engines, and on our hardware?
We should also compare quality of the rendered scene (lighting, shadows...)

Cheers!
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by Kojack » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:55 am

Yep, I'll make up something I can give out. I want a different model (the tree was just because OpenMW was using a tree in a test they did). Hmm, how would sinbad look with pbs? :)
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by frostbyte » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:33 am

Hmm, how would sinbad look with pbs? :)
funny enough i was just asking my self the same question...(-:
isn't the fact that both unity and unreal use deffered pipeline( with global ilumination etc ) has something to do with this performance diff?
maybe we should try comparing other differed engines with the new forward3d branch( wip ) and with many lights...
but anyway initial results are encouriging...made me want to switch to 2.1 right away...thanks... :P
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by Kojack » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:12 am

Unreal is deferred only (which is why it can't handle transparency properly, I've read of people struggling with porting things like water shaders from UDK to UE4).
I guess Unity 5 still has both, the docs on the unity web site still seem to be for 4, they mention deferred is pro only.
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by madmarx » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:36 pm

That's very good news. That Ogre is breathing again !
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by mrmclovin » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:10 pm

This is so exciting to read. I look forward to start playing around with Ogre 2!

Really nice done from all contributers and a special thanks to Matias :)
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by frostbyte » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:02 am

oh..the joy of building ogre 2.1 with dx11 and intel hd-support... :D
only giving results for pbs materials since forward3d has too many options and is still WIP...
test unit- laptop intel-i7 quadcore with intel hd4000( integrated ), nvidia 660m

PBS materials results...( 1366*768 )
660m:
dx11 245fps
gl3+ 185fps

HD4000( integrated )
dx11 76fps ( as expected 3-4 times weaker than 660m )

for all laptop/optimus testers...
don't forget to plugin your AC otherwise power save mode optimization kicks in...( its really funny watching fps drop when i plug out the power )

doesn't matter... intel HD works - matias rocks...2.1 getting ready for prime-time :D
matias...amazing work...( here to fill yourself all possible superlatives ... 8) )
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Re: something good is happening?

Post by frostbyte » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:55 am

some more performance testing...
ShadowMapDebugging...( 1366*768 )
quadcore i7 laptop...integrated intel hd4000 deducated nvidia 660m...

nvidia 660m:
dx11 590fps!!!
gl3+ 330fps???

HD4000
dx11 106fps

mmm.... maybe something is wrong with my gl3+ setting comared to dx11...or is ogre's dx RenderSystem topping back opengl RS( again )?
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