Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Design / architecture / roadmap discussions related to future of Ogre3D (version 2.0 and above)
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icaro56
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Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by icaro56 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:41 pm

Are there some project to transform the Ogre3D in a complete game engine?

I get a little sad seeing others game engine like: Unity, Unreal, "beta Amazon Game Engine" and etc "stealing" the programmers who used Ogre3D. I know there's some game engines as NeoAxis and Ogitor, but they do not have the power or the charm of Ogre3D name.

I think the future of the Ogre is becoming a Game Engine que export to all platforms. The team Ogre could continue with the Graphic Engine Ogre but also have the official Game Engine.

Many universities in Brazil do not teach more programming games with Ogre3d. They are choosing to teach game engines easy to learn how to Unity. Then the market prefers to use Unity for lack of Ogre programmers.

I apologize for any misunderstanding. This is just a feeling I feel about the future of Ogre3d. I feel an immense affection for this engine and would like it to become the main Game Engine of the independent games.
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by GlowingPotato » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:56 pm

Well, what I can say is. OGRE is a rendering engine. There is a lot of OGRE applications that isn't game focused.

A game engine involves a lot more than rendering, so a lot more people working would be necessary.
I'am happy with ogre being only a rendering engine, It opens a lot of doors for customizing applications.

Engines like Skyline Game Engine uses OGRE for rendering, and its pretty nice. In our studio we use OGRE for rendering, and a lot of open sources libraries that together becomes a game engine.
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by icaro56 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:12 pm

Yes, Ogre is a rendering engine. But, the attention of programmers end up dissolving. For this reason I talk about an official game engine to focus all game developers in the same engine. But like you said, the team is very small and it would be difficult for them to have to develop another project.
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by MadWatch » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:36 pm

icaro56 wrote:an official game engine to focus all game developers in the same engine
I doubt any single engine will ever be able to answer the needs of all developers. Every single application has its own special requirements. The reason I'm working on my own engine in the first place is because the existing ones don't satisfy me. I assume all developers using Ogre are also working on their own engine for the same reason.

Strictly as an Ogre user, I'm happy with Ogre doing one thing and doing it well. I wouldn't like to see it become a jack of all trades but master of none.

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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by icaro56 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:56 pm

I said another Ogre project. The actual Ogre3d would be the rendering engine. The experts programmers could create their own engines yet. :D
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by spookyboo » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:27 pm

Ogre has been around for more than 10 years so why isn't this done earlier. The answer is simple, you need a dedicated group of people devoted to this. I don't see this happening. If Ogre becomes the fastest renderer around (Ogre 2.1), people will return again. What IS needed are proper documentation/examples, facilities to import from 3D packages and some dedicated Ogre tools to make life a bit easier.
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by Herb » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:24 pm

I agree with SpookyBoo. Once 2.1 is out with solid documentation and tutorials, re-adoption should increase. I do think some community plugins that work with 2.1 would help as well. Personally, I feel like Ogre is right on the edge of the transition. Many folks still in the older version, and 2.1 is still needing more community support (documentation / examples / etc) to get a big adoption.
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by Thyrion » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:26 pm

Well, i'm making an ogre(2.1) gameengine (sparetime).

But it's far far away from production ready, if ever at all :)

I think i give the engine the name "Frankenstein Engine" :
Because it's put together with alot of other dead/inactive projects :D
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by syedhs » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:40 am

It is okay to create 'eco-system' which supports Ogre.. eg:-

1) Create basic world editor. I emphasis the word basic because it can then be used to create more application specific world editor. It pains me when I see many world editor project spawned in showcase project, and then later dies (almost all of them dies, without contributing anything - just for developer's pleasure). This way, anyone can jump start Ogre project (create world, and then load them later on different project). Otherwise, everything has to be down from scratch - it is just way too much for small team.

2) Also, create basic game engine surrounding Ogre. Again, basic is emphasized here - at least there is networking built, physics, vehicle, gui etc.. it is not meant to be full fledged but good enough to create basic games.

The 2 points above at least will avoid lots of duplication of efforts (which instead can be used to improvise existing tools) and also more often that not, unnecessary integration and compilations problem when we are dealing with third party libraries. It doesnt mean that Ogre team members has to do them all, but if the consensus is there, then the direction is clear and people can then pool their efforts toward that.
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by c6burns » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:54 am

Can't wait to use this new engine when it's done
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by TheOnlyJoey » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:31 am

This is not something the Ogre team should ever focus on for a couple of reasons.

1: Time constraint.
If you build something (regardless of how small or 'basic') you need to support it, support takes away from development, resulting in overhead.
Developing Tools and such is a fulltime job since these are end-user applications.

2: Do 1 thing right instead of 5 things badly
Ogre is a rendering engine and always have been, it included a couple of additions making it easier to integrate and test (like the resource pipeline) but the focus on rendering, materials and platform deployment should always be the focus of the project.

3: Game engines are for Game Developers
And Ogre is not really.
Though a lot of games are developed on Ogre, the focus of the project is more then that, resulting in a lot of simulation, university and business applications being developed on Ogre. Lots of these projects are not released to the public (being internal applications or sandbox prototyping environments) but a big group of users nonetheless.

If you want a full game engine, use a full game engine.
If you want a renderer, use Ogre.
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by Thyrion » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:37 pm

MadWatch wrote:I doubt any single engine will ever be able to answer the needs of all developers. Every single application has its own special requirements. The reason I'm working on my own engine in the first place is because the existing ones don't satisfy me. I assume all developers using Ogre are also working on their own engine for the same reason.
this ^
syedhs wrote: 2) Also, create basic game engine surrounding Ogre. Again, basic is emphasized here - at least there is networking built, physics, vehicle, gui etc.. it is not meant to be full fledged but good enough to create basic games.
and this ^

too sad, no ogre3D engine is MIT until today ....
It's used a lot, but nearly no contribution comes back :( (particularly of the, "i want to make money from my engine" guys ...)
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by TheOnlyJoey » Thu May 05, 2016 10:40 am

Thyrion wrote: It's used a lot, but nearly no contribution comes back :( (particularly of the, "i want to make money from my engine" guys ...)
This is actually not true, multiple developers of engines and games contribute back to Ogre, primarily if they want their own fixes to Ogre mainlined to keep maintenance simple (which is a good intensive to contribute imho)
Bugfixes, new functionality or additional features to existing ones, design in Ogre 2.1, feedback sessions etc.

Keep in mind that not every developer is blatant about this and probably use their own personal account or a second account to do this on.
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Re: Ogre3D as a complete game engine

Post by Thyrion » Thu May 05, 2016 11:36 am

TheOnlyJoey wrote:
Thyrion wrote:multiple developers of engines and games contribute back to Ogre, primarily if they want their own fixes to Ogre mainlined to keep maintenance simple (which is a good intensive to contribute imho)
Bugfixes, new functionality or additional features to existing ones, design in Ogre 2.1, feedback sessions etc.

Keep in mind that not every developer is blatant about this and probably use their own personal account or a second account to do this on.
good to know :)
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