[News] Ogre 13 released

News, announcements and important global threads from the Ogre3D Team.
Post Reply
paroj
OGRE Team Member
OGRE Team Member
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:51 pm
x 696
Contact:

[News] Ogre 13 released

Post by paroj »

User avatar
sercero
Bronze Sponsor
Bronze Sponsor
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:20 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
x 62

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by sercero »

@paroj, great work as always.

The only thing I can say as criticism is that I'm not happy about the version change.

To me this is going to cause further confusion to new users (won't somebody think of the new users :lol: )

Also it seems that the releases are going to be: 13.1.0, 13.2.0,... etc. Is the .z ever going to be used?

I don't know... it is a change that seems... ugly. Just my opinion.

To be honest I think that this change should have been consulted with the community.

Of course it is true that @paroj is carrying OGRE 1.x over his shoulders practically alone, but this is big...
loath
Platinum Sponsor
Platinum Sponsor
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:18 am
x 32

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by loath »

very cool, can't wait to upgrade!
paroj
OGRE Team Member
OGRE Team Member
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:51 pm
x 696
Contact:

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by paroj »

sercero wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:33 pm The only thing I can say as criticism is that I'm not happy about the version change.

To me this is going to cause further confusion to new users (won't somebody think of the new users :lol: )
Actually, the questions regarding versioning I encountered so far were why 1.12.x carry non-trivial changes as elsewhere one only expects bugfixes here.
sercero wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:33 pm Also it seems that the releases are going to be: 13.1.0, 13.2.0,... etc. Is the .z ever going to be used?
yes, mostly. There were occasions where I messed up a 1.12.x release (e.g. forgot to bump the version number somewhere). In this cases I quickly retracted the release and hoped nobody will notice. (which seems to have worked :D)

Now, I can just do 13.2.1 in this case. This helps bots that monitor ogre releases and get confused if 1.12.x is released twice. Also, Ogre 1.12.13 would have been 12.12.1 in this scheme as it mostly contains bugfixes (I would have skipped the feature changes).
User avatar
sercero
Bronze Sponsor
Bronze Sponsor
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:20 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
x 62

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by sercero »

@paroj what about using versioning like this: 1.13.1.1?

I'm arguing here mostly because to address the different OGRE versiones we say OGRE 1.x vs OGRE 2.x, how are we going to refer to the different versions?

I see that in the site https://www.ogre3d.org/about/what-version-to-choose it says OGRE1 vs OGRE Next, so it should be very confusing to have OGRE1 be OGRE v13...
paroj
OGRE Team Member
OGRE Team Member
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:51 pm
x 696
Contact:

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by paroj »

sercero wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:37 pm @paroj what about using versioning like this: 1.13.1.1?
that does not play along with semver, as "major" would be frozen at "1" forever. At this point we can move it to the name as well i.e. OGRE1.
Initially, I thought this is a good idea, but committing to this means renaming the project - cmake etc.
However, this goes against the idea that you can use your old "1.7" API code with minimal changes with OGRE 1.x.
sercero wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:37 pm I'm arguing here mostly because to address the different OGRE versiones we say OGRE 1.x vs OGRE 2.x, how are we going to refer to the different versions?
After the project split we got ogre and ogre-next at the repo level, so I would just use that consistently e.g. ogre v13.0 and ogre-next v2.3. (I updated what version to choose accordingly)
This properly encodes that you get different code-bases at respective API versions.
User avatar
sercero
Bronze Sponsor
Bronze Sponsor
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:20 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
x 62

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by sercero »

OK, I understand...

Now, let's talk about the drop of CG... :?

Was it too much work to maintain? I was still using it... :(

Anyway, my plan is to eventually use RTSS but I want to understand shaders better before that.

If the cost of maintaining CG is zero then I would like to ask to keep it.

Thanks.
Slicky
Bronze Sponsor
Bronze Sponsor
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Was LA now France
x 23

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by Slicky »

Nice update - thank you
paroj
OGRE Team Member
OGRE Team Member
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:51 pm
x 696
Contact:

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by paroj »

sercero wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:50 am Now, let's talk about the drop of CG... :?
it is still there:
https://github.com/OGRECave/ogre/tree/m ... ramManager
User avatar
sercero
Bronze Sponsor
Bronze Sponsor
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:20 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
x 62

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by sercero »

paroj wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:04 pm
sercero wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:50 am Now, let's talk about the drop of CG... :?
it is still there:
https://github.com/OGRECave/ogre/tree/m ... ramManager
Sorry, it's under RTSS.

No problemo then.
loath
Platinum Sponsor
Platinum Sponsor
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:18 am
x 32

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by loath »

i upgraded my project and tools to ogre 13 without any issues. thanks so much for all the hard work!
User avatar
EricB
Gnome
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:28 am
Location: Florida
x 202
Contact:

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by EricB »

Dropping the 1.x is stupid. It's an awful decision in my opinion.

Ogre 13 is practically compatible with Ogre 1.6, or what you would call Ogre 6. There wasn't 7 near complete rewrites of the engine.

Yes, I know you want to hide the 1.x because it looks ugly, or some silly reason like that. But Ogre 1 should always have the 1.x in it. That way you know for sure it's not "Ogre Next". Almost everyone who I've talked in recent years who uses Ogre, is really talking about "Ogre Next." For a while there, I used to be about the only active user on the IRC channel. So I've talked to a lot of users over the years.

What happens when Ogre 3.x is made? What if that project gets insanely popular and everyone just calls it Ogre instead of "Ogre Beyond" or whatever silly name they come up with? Then you got confusion between Ogre, Ogre Next, and Ogre Beyond!

Release version matters.

While I use a versioning scheme close to semantic versioning, I've always considered it moronic to drop the release status bit.

Ogre 13 is Ogre 1.13. Ogre Next is Ogre 2.x. You guys can try to make a name for yourself by forking things off into their your own little projects, but at the end of the day changing the name of the project does nothing but piss off some of us old timers.

Just my two cents. I won't be calling Ogre 1.13, Ogre 13.

But I thank you for the work none the less.
Image
paroj
OGRE Team Member
OGRE Team Member
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:51 pm
x 696
Contact:

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by paroj »

EricB wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:28 am Ogre 13 is practically compatible with Ogre 1.6, or what you would call Ogre 6. There wasn't 7 near complete rewrites of the engine.
a MAJOR version change does not mean what you think it means.
EricB wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:28 am Dropping the 1.x is stupid. It's an awful decision in my opinion.
Ogre 13 is Ogre 1.13. Ogre Next is Ogre 2.x.
I've always considered it moronic
I won't be calling Ogre 1.13, Ogre 13.
you can take your time to get used to the change.
User avatar
EricB
Gnome
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:28 am
Location: Florida
x 202
Contact:

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by EricB »

paroj wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:31 pm
EricB wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:28 am Ogre 13 is practically compatible with Ogre 1.6, or what you would call Ogre 6. There wasn't 7 near complete rewrites of the engine.
a MAJOR version change does not mean what you think it means.
I completely understand what a Major change is. It is an API breakage. Come-on now, I've been programming for 20 years.

My complaint is dropping the Release bit. You drop the 1.x and instead rely on the project name. That will cause confusion, especially since Ogre 2.x is also doing the same thing. 90% of people who used to pop in asking questions about "Ogre" on IRC where generally talking about Ogre 2.x. They don't use "Ogre Next" or even "Ogre2". I'll be eating the popcorn when you get into the Ogre 20 range, or if/when Ogre 2.x catches up with you in Major build numbers.
you can take your time to get used to the change.
No need, I'm stubborn as a mule. I've always disliked the desire to make numbers look bigger. So I won't be referring to it. Anyway doesn't matter. I'm mostly retired from Ogre, and only popped in because I noticed the name change on Phoronix.

But really, you guys should put the naming/versioning schemes/etc to community votes. There is no technical reason for it. It's just ascetics. So it's something easy to allow community interaction with. Similar to the website/logo redesign. Reminds me of similar bad choices like the Ogre 2's build name, or when you decided to try to delete everything in add-ons forum, dropping 3D from the name (funny enough the folks on Phoronix are getting confused with OG3D, looks too similar), etc.
Image
loath
Platinum Sponsor
Platinum Sponsor
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:18 am
x 32

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by loath »

I'm mostly retired from Ogre, and only popped in because I noticed the name change on Phoronix.
have you started another project? i've always enjoyed following your work and business insight.
User avatar
EricB
Gnome
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:28 am
Location: Florida
x 202
Contact:

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by EricB »

loath wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:01 pm
I'm mostly retired from Ogre, and only popped in because I noticed the name change on Phoronix.
have you started another project? i've always enjoyed following your work and business insight.
Just about to. I've already finished pre-production of the next project, and was talking to several publishers for funding. They're almost all universally demanding prepackaged engines and 2-3 year development times. Since I mostly do this as a labor of love, I probably won't go down that route. (The money is good, but once I hire 2 or 3 people to help out, working on languages and platforms I loathe (heh) and managing everything, it becomes a job.)

I'm currently working on the manual for GearCity (my Ogre game). So I am mostly just winding it down phase, especially since "Full Release" is just a formality at this point. I plan on launching a DaaS for it after release, so I will still being using Ogre for quite some time. I'm just done with from-scratch start to finish development on Ogre. I probably won't go full Ogre3D for the next project. If I did, it will be Ogre embedded into QT, or QT embedded into Ogre, since my games are insanely heavy GUI. But really at that point, QT3D could handled my 3D requirements. I really need better UI tools than what became of QuickGUI (Shame I didn't rip it out 8-10 years ago when it was abandoned and it became a problem.) Anyway, when business folks are trying to throw money at you, you should probably listen. So it's up in the air what I use next.

Architecturally, the next game is client agnostic. So I have some time to develop the server/gameplay core before worrying about renderers, sound, inputs, and UI.
Image
loath
Platinum Sponsor
Platinum Sponsor
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:18 am
x 32

Re: [News] Ogre 13 released

Post by loath »

that makes total sense. i know people are successful with the publishing model but man that doesn't sound fun.

let us know how to follow your next project when you get going and thanks again!
Post Reply