DirectX 11 render system - work-in-progress

Post by **Assaf Raman** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:10 pm

I few months ago I started a directX 10 render system. I never finished it but did lots of work.
I saw in Sinbad blog that he started to work on it also.
SO â€“ here is my code. Not doneâ€¦

Hope it helps someone.
http://assaframan.googlepages.com/Direct3D10.zip

Post by **sinbad** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:08 pm

Thanks Assaf - someone else emailed me some work-in-progress too so I shall attempt to unify & finish everything

It's a spare-time activity though so it might be a while.

Lee04 · Post by **Lee04** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:13 pm

DirectX10 is a bit "old" by know to architect an Ogre Rendersystem around.
DirectX 10.1 specs are available already. Maybe it should be taken into account as well now, even if the hardware won't be available in a while.

I started as well on a DX10 rendersystem got nowhere because I wanted to support input assembly etc. and all the good DirectX10 features.
I realized that Ogres render system needs some new refactoring to fit these in and then maybe even openGL3.0 should be in that refactoring design as well as DX10.1.

Has anyone recompiled Ogre for Vista version of DirectX9 by the way?

I don't have Vista myself yet.
Which hasn't stopped some projects using it.
We used reference raster etc.

Post by **Assaf Raman** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:16 pm

Lee04 wrote:Has anyone recompiled Ogre for Vista version of DirectX9 by the way?

Yes. Everything works.

Post by **sinbad** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:42 am

Yeah, I use Ogre / Dx9 on Vista fairly regularly. I would rather stick a fork in my eye than do any serious work using the Dx10 reference rasteriser though. It would be less painful.

Dx10.1 doesn't add any major architectural changes, it just tightens a few of the requirements. Basically, it's the variable hardware caps of Dx9 by another name.

Lee04 · Post by **Lee04** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:02 pm

@Assaf:

Lee04 wrote:
Has anyone recompiled Ogre for Vista version of DirectX9 by the way?

Yes. Everything works.

Did you get the promised X6 performance boost then???

bibiteinfo · Post by **bibiteinfo** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:05 pm

Lee04 wrote:@Assaf:
Lee04 wrote:
Has anyone recompiled Ogre for Vista version of DirectX9 by the way?

Yes. Everything works.
Did you get the promised X6 performance boost then???

You mean / 6 ?

I know where I was working before, switching DX9 code from XP to Vista had a really big gasp because drivers where not yet finished and ready for use and this was in may, might have change. But basicly it should not be * 6, you are limited by your GPU, not the OS.

Post by **Praetor** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:32 pm

I have noticed no speedup whatsoever. My laptop and desktop use vista+dx9 now and it seems like a slight slowdown.

Post by **Assaf Raman** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:25 pm

Lee04 wrote:Did you get the promised X6 performance boost then???

No. Seems the same.
Same GPU + same comuter = same performance.

Lee04 · Post by **Lee04** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:39 pm

I mean of course with a DirectX 10 card Nvidia 8800 not a DX9 card and using the new DirectX9 Vista Dx10 features the right way.

And you have patched Vista with the graphics card patch for high performance cards....etc.

The reason I ask is because I am about to port a DirectX projects renderer...

I am however stuck with VS 2003.... but I tried compiling and running the DX9 Vista sample and move it to Vista and it worked to compile it with VS2003 as long as I have the Vista SDK installed in my XP system.

Cool sample...

Os does effect things virtualization and driver integration and the design of everything has chaged in the OS especially for graphics driver.
Hopefully it should make a difference. Of course you have to change some things in your DX9 implementations as the manual and examples shows to get the performance boost.

And not all applications benefits it depends what bottlenecks they have etc.

It was a bit hard to find the Vista DX9 ex things they are not in the DirectX SDK.... but in the Windows SDK.

Yeh strange thing it says in a FAQ at MSDN that you can mix DX9 and DX10 functions with in the same running application....strange...or did I misunderstand the FAQ perhaps?

Something for Ogre perhaps??

Post by **sinbad** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:24 pm

The x6 speedup is mostly a bunch of marketing crap. I believe it's based on the fact that you can now use the geometry shader to select the target texture in a texture array and thus you're able to render to all 6 faces of a cubemap at once. The x6 across the board line is a myth.

They've also reduced the CPU overhead in issuing render batches which helps, but it won't be x6.

Basic skeleton Dx10 rendersystem is in CVS now, lots still to do to before it's functional since so many things have changed, but it compiles so it's a start. I'll be adding to it incrementally over the next couple of months, firstly starting on resolving the new stricter locking behaviours and state objects. Assistance welcome if anyone wants to offer it, like in the MRT / HardwarePixelBuffer area where a lot has changed. Only once we have the rendersystem implementing all the Dx9 functionality properly will I start adding the new Dx10 features.

Post by **xavier** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:51 pm

I assume you need Vista to work on this? I presume it's enough to have a late-model DX SDK to build it of course.

Post by **sinbad** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:30 pm

To run it you need Vista yeah, but to be honest since it doesn't actually _run_ properly yet anyway that's somewhat academic

It'll start up but that's about it so far.

Lee04 · Post by **Lee04** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:23 am

Can we have a scriptable input assembly for Dx10?

Post by **sinbad** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:08 pm

Explain.

The issue with IA on Dx10 is that it's stricter than Dx9. In fact, it actually goes back to some degree to how Dx8 used to be, which I hated. That is, that you have to store the result from the compilation of a vertex shader and use that as a basis for matching the vertex buffers. It puts a rather higher coupling between the geometry definitions and vertex shaders (material system) than I personally like. In Dx9 you basically match up the geometry and the vertex shader inputs, and anything that's missing is just wither blank or random. Allows you to keep a nice separation between shading and geometry data, but that's been coupled together again. It's one of the gaps I'll have to bridge in Dx10 there will probably have to be an intermediate structure that matches IA to VertexDeclarations and caches the result for re-use, in a similar way to how I'm going to have to build and reuse state objects based on Pass.

Bryan_See · Post by **Bryan_See** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:42 am

I've downloaded the DX10 render system, and I'm porting to Axiom, and finish it from here, and maybe add DX10.1 support sometime in the future.

Post by **Assaf Raman** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:45 am

Use my code as a base - you will have most of the base for type conversion.

Post by **:wumpus:** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:40 pm

Lee04 wrote:DirectX10 is a bit "old" by know to architect an Ogre Rendersystem around.
DirectX 10.1 specs are available already. Maybe it should be taken into account as well now, even if the hardware won't be available in a while.

Old? How many people do you think there are that can run a DirectX10 application at all, as it requires both a very recent GPU and Vista? Well, how many of those have DirectX10.1 cards? Even the latest NVidia cards cannot do DX10.1 yet, so supporting it is more an academic exercise if anything.

Post by **xavier** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:22 pm

:wumpus: wrote:
Lee04 wrote:DirectX10 is a bit "old" by know to architect an Ogre Rendersystem around.
DirectX 10.1 specs are available already. Maybe it should be taken into account as well now, even if the hardware won't be available in a while.
Old? How many people do you think there are that can run a DirectX10 application at all, as it requires both a very recent GPU and Vista? Well, how many of those have DirectX10.1 cards? Even the latest NVidia cards cannot do DX10.1 yet, so supporting it is more an academic exercise if anything.

Wumpus, you've been around long enough to know to avoid biting on Lee's Direct3D10 trolls...

Post by **Assaf Raman** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:37 pm

Got is going once more.
Now it compiles and runs - but black window for now.
I will work on it this weekend and I hope I get it to render the simple samples.
Here is the compiling and running code: OGRE_Direct3D10_RenderSystem_compiles.zip

You will need the latest OGRE (v1-4-6) and the latest dx sdk (November 2007)

I will post any code that I will create in this thread until I will get it to render â€“ then I will move to the showcase.

Post by **Assaf Raman** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:24 am

The support for the "old" hlsl parameters takes me forever. They did a big change there, it is much harder to enumerate the parameters and update them. I am almost done with that.

My next step will be to create a sort of "general" hlsl shader, in dx 10 â€“ you can't render without a shader â€“ and lots of OGRE sample and code renders without a shader â€“ so I will need to solve it before we will be able to see anything.

I hope to have it rendering the simple demos and GUI by Sunday night.

SiENcE · Post by **SiENcE** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:20 pm

Keep on going !

I read this thread everytime there is something new. So please keep this "dev.-blog" comments

.

regards

MartinBean · Post by **MartinBean** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:39 pm

Yeah, although nobody responses... I'm sure many are following it...

We support you Assaf... in silence, but still...

Post by **Assaf Raman** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:32 pm

Thanks for the support!

I hope I will finish the basic rendering until tomorrow night so we will have the base for this new render system available for all to improve and test.

Game_Ender · Post by **Game_Ender** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:56 am

Isn't Sinbad plugging away at this as well?

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DirectX 11 render system - work-in-progress

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