DAZ 3D Studio models

The place for artists, modellers, level designers et al to discuss their approaches for creating content for OGRE.
Post Reply
User avatar
tau
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Austin (that's kept wierd :))

DAZ 3D Studio models

Post by tau »

I have a question for the artists here. I'm not an artist, so my apologies for the noobish questions. ;)

Is anybody working with DAZ 3D Studio models?
Do you think it's possible to import them in XSI or Max, and use them for the high-res normal maps? And/or animations?

I like the prices and the quality of those models - I may use them in my projects.

Thanks!

User avatar
Aladrin
Orc
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:22 pm

Post by Aladrin »

When I read your post, I thought 'WOW! That'd be great, I remember they had great stuff.' But then I couldn't find any info on using it with Ogre3D... Very odd, if it's such good stuff. I found one expired post on here in a search that said something about 'oh, then I can't use daz3d models with ogre' and that was it.

WHY!?

So I FINALLY found the answer.

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/faq/0/-/?id=114
You may not:
Distribute any part or portion of the data (or "files") that you receive from DAZ as part of your purchase. You may not sell, nor give away, nor modify and then redistribute any portion of the files whatsoever. You may not use a DAZ product to create any item that competes with said product.
The full EULA is at http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/faq/0/-/?id=2 but I think the previous bit answered the question sufficiently: If you can't distribute the model and texture, then you can't have a realtime 3d app that uses the model or texture. Bleh.

User avatar
KungFooMasta
OGRE Contributor
OGRE Contributor
Posts: 2087
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:11 am
Location: WA, USA
x 16
Contact:

Post by KungFooMasta »

I read that EULA a while back.

According to the EULA, (correct me if I'm wrong) we are allowed to use any images produced from DAZ in our own works.

So for now you can put DAZ models in your game, and when/if you get to the point where you want to go commercial, you will need to recreate the models you use. This would take work, but if you have a front/back/top/side view of each models, it shouldn't be too hard to recreate your model, right? After all, the DAZ packs are made of base models with plenty of morph targets, so you can manipulate and create the character you want (its unique to your taste, not a direct duplicate of a predefined model). Also, this helps enable you to work on game mechanics.

Am I wrong in thinking this? :P

KungFooMasta

User avatar
tau
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Austin (that's kept wierd :))

Post by tau »

Hmm... They are really strict... Well... It seems like it's possible to use their models to create hi-res textures and normal maps for your game characters... Then just make low-res clones by yourself...

User avatar
Aladrin
Orc
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:22 pm

Post by Aladrin »

tau wrote:Hmm... They are really strict... Well... It seems like it's possible to use their models to create hi-res textures and normal maps for your game characters... Then just make low-res clones by yourself...
Nope.
provided that you may not in any case: (a) separately publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any 3-D Model(s) or any part thereof; or (b) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any original 3-D Model(s), or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the original 3-D Model(s) can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format.
You can't even use their models and then create your own that look substantially like them. Just by buying their models and creating one that looks similar, you creating the potential for a lawsuit.

Their models are excellent, cheap, and perfect for Poser. They are not at all good for game development.

User avatar
KungFooMasta
OGRE Contributor
OGRE Contributor
Posts: 2087
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:11 am
Location: WA, USA
x 16
Contact:

Post by KungFooMasta »

The use of "similar" is very vague. DAZ models come with so many morphs that it is possible to make a totally unrelated character model in Maya, for example, and use DAZ studio to imitate that model. Similar most likely means easily distinguishable as a DAZ model. If you look a model and DAZ or Poser does not instantly pop into your head, then it is impossible to tell where the model came from.

I'm not a modeller, but don't many artists need images of inspiration or reference when creating a particular model? DAZ grants us ownership of any images and animations produced. Taking many views to make a model may be on the dangerous side, but if you take one image and used that as a reference or inspiration to make your own, I don't think you would get into trouble.

Its understood that using the models in any commercial works are forbidden. I'm wondering, why does DAZ studio export to .obj with textures and all right out of the box? You literally click 3 or 4 buttons, and you have the model and all its textures...

KungFooMasta

[edit]
You forgot the beginning part of that paragraph:
You may (i) access, use, copy and modify the 3-D Models stored on such computers at such single location in the creation and presentation of animations and renderings which may require runtime access to the 3-D Model(s), and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived from the 3-D Model(s) in other works and publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense such combined works;
[\edit]

User avatar
Aladrin
Orc
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:22 pm

Post by Aladrin »

I didn't forget it, I left it out as it would only be excess text to read and had no impact. It doesn't change the fact that you can't distribute the models, or any model substantially similar, if you buy their models.

'Similar' is intentionally vague on their part, and means not only visually but structurally, etc.

They allow you to export to OBJ as it's a very commonly used format and can import into about anything. Very useful if you've got some off-the-wall rendering software and want to create a scene. Basically, it's the same reason their textures are in TIF or PNG or whatever they are. So you can use what you bought.

I'll grant you that using their models to create a still image, then creating your own model from scratch while looking at it, is probably legal. PROVING that you did that and didn't just modify their model is substantially harder. Especially if your mesh ends up being substantially like theirs.

It's very tempting to grab a few cheap models and get the project started, but I wouldn't take a chance on running afoul of their legal department. (I'm not saying they've sued anyone. I don't know. But they could at any time.)

I am not a lawyer, btw.

User avatar
tau
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Austin (that's kept wierd :))

Post by tau »

Well, at least I can make some intro pictures and cut-scenes for my game using those models and landscapes - that's cool.

lostzac
Gnoblar
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:45 pm

Post by lostzac »

I disagree with the not good for game development..depends on what type of game you are making.

A while back i experimented with a 3d rpg world and environment, made a top down camera and rendered out all the avatars monsters and things like that 2d in poser....That demo turned out really well and polished...

The issue is people look as poser and daz models as a fast way to animate and shortcuts in the work....Which it is providing you use the tool what its really made for 2d animations and hi rez rendering.

User avatar
Aladrin
Orc
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:22 pm

Post by Aladrin »

lostzac wrote:I disagree with the not good for game development..depends on what type of game you are making.

A while back i experimented with a 3d rpg world and environment, made a top down camera and rendered out all the avatars monsters and things like that 2d in poser....That demo turned out really well and polished...

The issue is people look as poser and daz models as a fast way to animate and shortcuts in the work....Which it is providing you use the tool what its really made for 2d animations and hi rez rendering.
That's a good point. I hadn't thought about pre-rendering all the characters, and having them actually be 2d in a 3d world. It's been a while since I played a game like that. I imagine these days that it would be hard to tell the difference, if done properly.

progmars
Halfling
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:47 am

Post by progmars »

What if you could use some free models, like from here:

http://www.antonkisieldesigns.com/~akfi ... ReadMe.htm

?

User avatar
Praetor
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 3335
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Rochester, New York, US
x 3
Contact:

Post by Praetor »

If you're thinking about doing anything commercial with DAZ, before just accepting the EULA, I recommend calling them. Hey you're commercial they're commercial. Realize you're on equal ground. Call them, talk to a real person, and you might be surprised what you can done with that amazing universal grease called money and little conversation.

User avatar
tau
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Austin (that's kept wierd :))

Post by tau »

That may work, if they dont request a lot of money :)
Twitter: Tau Powered

drgsldr69
Gnoblar
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:00 am

Post by drgsldr69 »

ok i have been working with daz3d for many years now. i have even created some content for use and for sale there. thier eula also goes in effect for me selling any models i create and sell. YET it is also only for DAZ MODELS many of the models on daz and for sale by daz are NOT daz models! so as long as you create your own models like i am doing for draconians it will not be a problem. many people fail to realise that eula is only for daz related models.

if you want or need a list of actual daz models i may be able to get that for you.

ok anything listed in thier store as a daz original you would not be able to use (unless you moddified it)

Live3DRealist
Gnoblar
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:21 pm

Re: DAZ 3D Studio models

Post by Live3DRealist »

Hi,
we're interested in real-time animating DAZ3D characters like Victoria 5 or 6 in Ogre or other Windows SDK friendly environments.
That would include animation for speaking characters (TTS lipsync).
I first would like to make a prototype to see if it's feasible, then negotiate with DAZ3D for a commercial use license.
My question is:
Can these highres avatars be exported to an ogre environment, not losing textures, and hair/cloths and so on?
Is it then still possible to move eyes, head and maybe arms and hands in the Ogre environment. (obj format is skin, not skeleton based).
It would already be fantastic if we at least can render the lipsynced face, face expression, moving eyes and head finally rendered into a 1024x1024 pixel window at 30 Hz framerate but with quite high resolution. It would be nice if this could later become compatible with an Oculus Rift type of device.
This is basically not for a game.

Who thinks this is possible?
Who knows how to make this possible, eg with Ogre?

Many thanks already!

f00bar
Halfling
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:00 am
x 1

Re: DAZ 3D Studio models

Post by f00bar »

You can buy a game dev license, then you can just buy the stuff for normal price and use it:
http://www.daz3d.com/indie-game-developer-license

Note:
- only stuff that has vendor "DAZ"
- look for sales and such (e.g. Platinum Club discount and more). Got it for 300 if I remember correctly.

But I would not buy it again:
- their software gets worse and worse. FBX and collada export gets lots of new bugs all the time to the point of being useless.
- While the old stuff (V4/M4) had LOD included and export worked, the new stuff has no LOD and they do not even allow the community to share LODs. It's all about money, they try to f*ck you whichever way they can find.
- I don't use their stuff anymore. You see bad decision after bad decision only to make money. They do a lot of work only to make sure stuff gets incompatible such that you have to buy it again.

If you still want to try:
- With blender and combining obj/FBX/Collada data I got everything imported with some trying. Even wrote some scripts to work around the issues and automate some stuff. Morphs/blend shapes can be a problem depending on your DAZ Studio version, but if you go via exporting each morph as obj it works with all versions I tried. But as said, lost my nerve, would not even know where I backed that s*it up.

Post Reply