Game Programmer(s) needed

[Shadow Blind]

So freaking useless. It's gone.

[Zonder]

lol

[Xavyiy]

No problem: http://paradise-sandbox.com/#consulting.php

When we start?

[chaosavy]

I highly recommend Xavyiy

[Klaim]

So, basically, just so that you understand the situation and you have some clues to learn:
- your project looks totally unrealistic: mmo games are among the most complex/difficult to setup applications, only people with a lot of experience can get to the end of one;
- it's obvious that you didn't make any other game before, otherwise you would have been terrified at the idea of trying a mmorpg;
- your description don't say anything about the project (other than it's not credible): anyone available and ready to jump in a project will never jump into something that obscure. you HAVE TO describe more about your game to make people (at least people that have some skills) interested.
- if you are lazy now, it will be worse while making the game. You certainly will not do anything and the team will have to be your slave. No thanks. That's what your message is telling us.

Good luck.

[Shadow Blind]

Didn't read all of it for one major reason:
Don't ever tell me I'm stupid to try something. I don't care how old I am, or how hard it'll be.
I grew up with a computer-IT-type family, I'm most certainly aware of how hard it's going to be. My brother tried talking me into making a text based game, but I feel like it's too simple.

It's unrealistic for the fact that I wasn't going to waist five hours typing what I'd actually need and how much to pay and other crap; it's completely pointless. I have a written description of one of the characters that pretty much explains the whole thing. But when you have work and school, and it's three in the mourning and you're tired, yeah.. you don't want to waist an hour or so. That's what I meant by lazy. Try living my life for a day and not tell me it's tiring.

But I don't understand why I'm waisting time at this moment, anyway, because your post did not educate me at all. Thanks for trying your absolute best for your help and kindness!

[spacegaier]

First off: Please watch your tone. We all have busy lives, and people here are trying to give you some perspective and honest feedback. Either take it or leave it, but watch the tone (in your own interest, since I assume that you already turned away quite some community members)!

Don't ever tell me I'm stupid to try something.

Nobody said your stupid...just inexperienced (at least that is how it comes across so far).

My brother tried talking me into making a text based game, but I feel like it's too simple.

There is a middle ground between MMORPG and a "simple" text-based game. Perhaps start there to gain some experience.

But I don't understand why I'm waisting time at this moment, anyway, because your post did not educate me at all.

That's pity, because I also think that there quite some valid points in it that you should consider.

[Shadow Blind]

Alright, but I don't want people accusing me of "You don't know what your doing".. because I've heard this many, many different ways. That's pretty much what he/she said. I'm also pretty uncaring/my personality can be harsh, that's just how I am. I come across rude all the time, unintentionally.

That's pity, because I also think that there quite some valid points in it that you should consider.

^ Not really.. again, I said that I already knew pretty much all of what he/she said.

~ANYWAY! Here's more details.~

"Shadow was abandoned with two other kits: One sister, and one brother. They grew up together. Shadow was a huge male cat, about three sizes of a large male cat. He was a Bombay; pitch black. The brother being Fright, a Tuxedo; White and Black, and the sister, who doesn't really have a name, and I don't know her look yet.

The sister (lets call her Rose), Rose, was play fighting with Fright. They were practicing for hunting, Fright had bit her neck, holding too long and mistakenly killed her. That was a depressing moment.

Then, Shadow and Fright were again play fighting, while Fright pushed Shadow into a river. He hit his head on a log, becoming blind. Fright thought Shadow'd died, thus he never saw him again.

Years later, he ran into a clan. There were rumors about a large, black, male cat who would hunt wolves for absolutely no reason. When Shadow came, the clan turned against him and thought him as a "Monster". While the wolves formed a pack, a small she-cat named Crystal had to talk him into helping them kill the wolves. She told him that she never said anything about you, and how she thought it was all wrong.

The clan never saw Shadow move before. He was jaw-droppingly good. He was blind, like said earlier, but he did back flips, dodged movements, pounced side-to-side, and, killed. He could do it in a matter of seconds. How? Mostly by using his tail and whiskers, ears too. But senses, in other words.


So its basically a game based with that. With cut scenes."

Here's another one:

"SFD is a MMORPG, WIP of course, we (Scar and I) just need a programmer. We're trying to at least get a game done, similar to FeralHeart. There's going to be two modes; if you're on a trip or something, don't have internet connection.. there should be a way to play with the cut scenes. The MMORPG part would be without the cut scenes.
Also, since us Mods like to be mean, only we can be characters from the 'Offline Mode'. We'll probably be the ones who did the description for that character, and coloured in the model. We might share, I don't know, but of course I'd be Shadow/Fright mainly. But this isn't important.

There will be a text box. Obviously, if it's an MMORPG. I might ask Scar if we could add in a system with chat rooms. Meaning, certain rooms you can meet up with friends to, and have a 'Microphone Chat' with.

You'll have a 'Friends List' and 'Actions List'. (Note I got most of these ideas from other games). To make a friend, you must send them a request by username. We may make it so when you sign up, you are given a three-number code so you don't need to type the whole username. Again, all of this is still deciding.
The 'Actions List' will have different things your character can do- such as 'Claw'. It might make one arm more with unsheathed claws with an animation. This also includes animations like 'Sit' or 'Lay'.

We might also add a 'Mailbox'. This is for PMing a member that is offline. It will also be able for the offline mode, only when not in battles or something that requires lots of movement.
When you get a notification, things might glow. If someone sends you mail and/or a friend request, it will glow.

Since I've been bugged many times about "When will the game come out"- hush. I need to find a/some programmers, and making 3D Games takes time, and lots of it. It also eats away at your money. Thus when the game comes out, it will be very simple. Maybe only... one marking, one item (you can wear)... just, very few things. Just so we can have a game done. . ."

There's going to be icons, on the side. For... the 'Animations/Emotions' thing.. your 'Mailbox' and 'Friends List'. I'd also like to add 'Clans', which is pretty much a group you can invite users to.

If you need any more details that's fine.

[Xavyiy]

Hi Shadow Blind,

Unfortunately I'm not able to work for free, I have to pay the bills. I would like to give you some objective numbers and data, so let's see:

• Paradise Sandbox (+Hydrax + SkyX) has taken me about 3600-4000 hours of work. Almost all my free time since 6 years ago.
• 4000 hours is 2hours/day during 6 years
• An experienced engineer salary is about 70$/h -> 4000*60 = 280000$ (280k$!)
• An MMORPG could easily require 8000+ hours, and that's only for the coding part. Not to mention a similar or ever higher number of hours from the modeling side.
• At 2h/day (asuming that's the max time/day someone can work without monetary revenue), that's more than 10 years! And only for the coding part!

So, unless you are rich or you're an experienced developer and that's your own personal project, I doubt very much you will see your game done.

Cheers

[c6burns]

Sometimes I miss hanging out on crydev forums ... there were a steady steam of these projects.

This one definitely has some strikes against:
-No previous game experience, but going for an MMO title
-No art
-No programmers
-No funding

Makes you think about how little ideas are worth without a means of realizing them My advice would be switch to a turnkey solution like Unity and learn some scripting. Also scale down expectations from MMO to simple single player. Multiplayer can come later.

Good luck!

[Klaim]

Shadow Blind, as I was saying, your initial post was sending signals that WILL make any dev flee your project. However, you now explained a bit more about the project, so you ARE learning. That's cool and that's the way to get to what you want to do. So now the first thing is to use your description (maybe a bit more concise thought, but you have time to work it) in the first post of any recruitment post you make anywhere on the net.

Next, we do understand that you want to make big things, but you have first to know how to make these big things (MMO or whatever) before starting to make them. We are not telling you that you will NEVER make an MMO. Tons of very small teams of game devs makes small mmos with hundreads of players and it works well. But the difference between you and them is that they had a lot of experience with games first.
So what is suggested in this thread, is simply to first learn about game programming in general, as much as you can, and then make games, and the more you make games, the closer you will be able to make your dream games (or a more realistic variant of it).

Also, lack of gamedev knowledge put aside, I was mostly pointing to the fact that, assuming you will go with a project that needs a team, you will also need to COMMUNICATE in a way that appeal skilled people. The current initial message, as I was pointing before, does not do what you want. What you should learn is how others made skilled people excited about their projects in a recruitement post. Other than clarity of concept, the things that are interesting to people willing to get into a team are mainly technical skills of the game author (that is, you have to show that you can do something useful, not just game design but either programming or graphics), a prototype (which also shows that you have skills) and visible efforts to make the project clear. This last part requires a lot of time and effort, that is, you have to think about how people will read your messages, how to respond without looking dumber than you are (we all do that regularly anyway) and how to keep staying positive.

My "good luck" was because you have a lot to learn but I don't think there is anything you will not achieve if you change attitude and keep learning and practicing game dev skills as much as you can.

I also recommand to you to read this book: http://www.gameenginebook.com/
It will give you a very wide view of the different parts of a big game's code. I mean that from reading that, you should learn a lot of words allowing you to quickly find other books or article related to game programming, to learn more about specific aspects of it. You will also quickly understand the massive work involved into a mmo, but with experience you will also learn that you could (in the future, when you are more skilled and experienced) make something that looks like a mmo but is not "massive".

I hope you learn a lot and manage to achieve your dreams one day.

[Shadow Blind]

Hi Shadow Blind,

Unfortunately I'm not able to work for free, I have to pay the bills. I would like to give you some objective numbers and data, so let's see:

I never really understood that. The bills I'd pay, the only thing I really need are programmers. Why? Mostly because of the fact that my own dang brother turned me down, to turn around an make a tutorial, which, in my case doesn't do me any good. He's made his own game, and the fact that he turned me down was harsh, so I've been going on the internet and making posts that are apparently not good; in other words, I don't "communicate of how 'pros' would," is how I understood it. But at this point it really doesn't matter because none of you are helping me, in fact you're not even really making me happy.

So back to the point: All the bills I would pay. I have the equipment to host the server, I can most certainly buy however much RAM I need, I can buy a better router, I can do all the crap that costs money. But I will not sit around and be told that it's going to "take ten years," because, I can just turn around and find someone else.

And the part about Unity, stated here:

"...like Unity and learn some scripting.."

Actually, my friend pretty much forced me to switch to Unity because it's "oh so easy," so thanks anyway.

I also never said your "good luck," wasn't nice. And I already know that I must take the time to figure everything out, because that's what I do, anyway, and also the "If you're too lazy now," part, was still rude in my perspective, because, it's to lazy in the context that "I'm going to sit around, watch TV and make my team, anyway". In fact, my friend was trying to make me a team behind my back and give me the .exe as a gift. What was my response? I was angry, because it's my game and I'd like to help. I just need experienced team members that can help me. My friend taught me how to animate, and I'm teaching myself how to texture, and my friend got a free book called "How to make a game with Python," and, that's also going to help lots, but no. That is certainly not what I meant by "lazy". I've been staying up until six A.M. every night, trying to get work done. Think I'm lazy? Think again.

I will also "not be respective" because like I said, none of you are helping. You're just putting stress on my shoulders, I don't need it. I can be a nice, loving person, hence why I'm forming a team, but make me upset in anyway, I'm not very forgiving, and I won't "cheer up" just because you'd like me to.

Did I say before that I was terrified at making one, anyway? No. Like I've said over three times, I just need help. Do any of you get the idea now? Because none of you are helping, can you all just leave this idea alone, you're not making it better in anyway.

[c6burns]

"...like Unity and learn some scripting.."

Actually, my friend pretty much forced me to switch to Unity because it's "oh so easy," so thanks anyway.

You're welcome!

[spacegaier]

Hi Shadow Blind,

Unfortunately I'm not able to work for free, I have to pay the bills. I would like to give you some objective numbers and data, so let's see:

I never really understood that. The bills I'd pay, the only thing I really need are programmers. [...]

So back to the point: All the bills I would pay. I have the equipment to host the server, I can most certainly buy however much RAM I need, I can buy a better router, I can do all the crap that costs money. But I will not sit around and be told that it's going to "take ten years," because, I can just turn around and find someone else.

Xavyiy did not mean the server / hardware bills on your end but the salary that he or any professional (full-time) programmer will require in order to be able to work for you (the programmer has to pay his or her own bills with that salary ).

And by finding someone else, the time it takes to implement your big game idea will not get smaller, so that does not solve your "problem".

BTW: I think we are helping you a lot by trying to steer you in the right direction, give feedback and even some example figures.

I can be a nice, loving person, hence why I'm forming a team, but make me upset in anyway, I'm not very forgiving, and I won't "cheer up" just because you'd like me to.

No need to cheer up as long as the tone stays in acceptable areas. But showing the people here that you are actively listening and not trolling / attacking will increase your chances of getting help and feedback. I assume quite some people have already started to ignore that thread and truth be told: I am mainly subscribed to this topic to prevent any escalation of tone...

[c6burns]

Yeah the real bummer is ... imagine there were a bunch of members lurking this topic and not posting, which is most certainly the case. And some of them were debating joining your project. You would be their technical lead ... or if a technical lead joined, you would be "management". Petulance is not a great quality to display to those people who would work with and for you. It's admirable to have a "don't tell me what I can't do" attitude ala John Locke going on his Australian walkabout, but look how that worked out for him. He ended up stranded on an island and then shot and later choked to death by Ben ... then his body was possessed by an evil smoke monster. You don't want that You want to succeed!

PS - my daughter loves the Warriors series and says she will playtest your game for free!

[Shadow Blind]

If you all agree with people not wanting to come to this topic for reason, that's their own problem. There are tons and tons of programmers and other people, that aren't even on this forum. So, good for them if they don't want to help, again that's not my problem.

And thanks, even though the game isn't necessarily like the Warriors series, though it was quite like it. I might make a demo in a few days that she can play if she so desires, and I need beta testers. And yes, it would of course be free.

I'm still debating if I should sell the game when it comes out, just to earn a few bucks and keep the game stable with it. My dad has about.. seven servers and he's currently in the hospital, we're also moving and since they were just sitting there, we turned them off. It saved a crap load of money, so when it's/they're back on... I might need a few more bucks. But, I have a while before thinking about that because it might be a year or so.

Spacegaier I'm starting to understand, thanks.. but still maybe a little confused on that subject. And you say a "full time programmer" but really.. it would not take ten years if he/she is full time. I've had a lot of people that it'd only take a few months to do only just the MMORPG part because it's not that hard..

Oh, I think I forgot to mention that if my focus on the single player part, it would take a loonngg time because, there's cut scenes. I can animate, yes, but I'd need voices, more models (and I already found a 'pro' modeler), and I don't even know how to make an .exe! I am quite a retard on this subject which is why I need help. The logic behind it seems easy, I just don't really know anything yet. People have told me to "go look up on youtube or google" and I've tried that. I don't get the right answers. So, like said before, I can do the MMO or the single player as my focus.. hmm, I don't know yet. I've just tired doing this for a few years now, and failed every attempt (exactly why I need help), and I have a line of people dying to play it. Again, maybe I'll make a small single player demo or something. There's a lot of decisions in my life right now, so I'll think about it.

Anyway, thanks for the small 'help' here and there, but the biggest thing I need right now is just a team, or someone to at least show me programming.

But showing the people here that you are actively listening and not trolling / attacking

That also confused me but oh well.

[chaosavy]

I've just tired doing this for a few years now, and failed every attempt (exactly why I need help),

This is just my opinion so feel free to disregard - failing means you are doing something right, you can't suceed without failing. The famous people that we look up to - scientists, philosophers, great artists - all failed, all struggled like you and I - are strugglign now. Failing means you tried something, it didn't work out, and now you have learned something new.

For example - it appears that you failed to get programmers to work on your project on this forum,

What have you learned from this?

Maybe they aren't intersted in making a MMO or a MMORPG.
Maybe your project isn't far along to get their interest.
Maybe the people on this forum are working on their own projects and are as obsessed about them as you are about yours.
Maybe the people on this forum make a living (or want to) via programming so their goal is to get paid for their work.

This list could go on and on - but the bottom line is that chances are - the biggest lesson is for you to continue working alone on this until you have more to show. And that means - more struggle, and more failing. So my humble advice is to keep trying to learn programming, do experiments, read as much as you can, keep failing and learning.

[Shadow Blind]

Maybe the people on this forum make a living (or want to) via programming so their goal is to get paid for their work.

You don't even know what my huge goal is, which is making my own business and yes, I might actually pay them for working on SFD. I've been trying to plan out the best place to get settled and start building a few years from now, I just want to make sure I have a good enough team to do that.

[PhilipLB]

That's just fine but in order to find someone willing to spend a lot of his free time, you have to give something. In this case, it would be a project outline and a very good reason, why someone should spend his time. I'm not experienced in recruiting people, but this is, what I would write in my initial posting:

• A project outline, what you are trying to achieve.
• Ideal: Some nice pictures or videos of what you already have
• The rough concept of what your plans are with this project: This is important because it also determines, what you can offer to the person.
• What kind of person do you search and how much time you expect from him/her
• What do you offer to this person

[Shadow Blind]

Ideal: Some nice pictures or videos of what you already have..

Yes, I was actually about to make a small movie clip of Shadow and Fright doing a "Music video" of them moving to a song. I just have to take the time to animate every frame, which of course will be splendid and will take all day, it also has nothing to do with the game, just playing around and wasting time.

Before that, I'm taking a little nap before doing anything for the fact that I've only had about an hour of sleep total, and I don't want to fall asleep at my computer.

[iblues1976]

Is he (Shadow Blind) for real?

[Shadow Blind]

What do you mean "Am I for real"?

[c6burns]

http://youtu.be/1ggn7C6AnrI?t=48s

/dance

[Shadow Blind]

If that was supposed to be a joke, I wasn't laughing.

My friend and I are currently making a movie for SFD since we have nothing better to do with our lives, It's fun, and there is no programming involved. Besides, we may use it for the single player thing and add in programming.

[c6burns]

It wasn't a joke, I was helping you pick out music for the music video!