why not improve ogre's art content ?

Post by **jacmoe** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:58 am

I felt that something was not quite right about the otherwise great Ogre model you are making, Jerky - but I haven't been able to point it out before now:
The head shape is too humanoid - the forehead is too 'upright' - a more neanderthal'ish look, please!

Jerky · Post by **Jerky** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:57 am

How about this one? 2nd post from the top:

http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.ph ... light=Ogre

Neanderthal is on the bottom right. Thick brow, low forehead?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/educa ... awings.pdf

Post by **jacmoe** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:16 am

Thick brow, low forehead - yes!

Jerky · Post by **Jerky** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:34 am

Another update, almost time to detail.

dr_amr · Post by **dr_amr** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:41 am

the head looks great already

but I feel something wrong with the wrinkles under the breast, they're too sharp and need to respond more to gravity, also the hands need more work

keep up the good work

Post by **jacmoe** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:26 pm

Definately yes! This Ogre is getting better and better!

Can't wait to see it fully textured!

Biggles · Post by **Biggles** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:04 pm

Hey, awesome work, I've never got the hang of 3d modelling at all, confuses the hell out of me.

Still, I'd like to offer some criticism, hope you don't mind.

Firstly, I think he needs some more charcter, at the mo he's a little generic looking. Something like an over-exagertedly large (or small) nose and or ears... perhaps a much stronger jawline? Someone earlier mentioned glasses, which i think would be awesome. He wants to be inspiring as well as easily identifiable, making some sort of statement.

Secondly, not sure I like the whole flabby look... he looks like a fairly dull, average middle aged man with green skin, an odd face and no heels. Perhaps more muscle definition? Though, obviously that's dependent on the direction you want to go in...

Sorry if that all sounds rather negative, I think what you've done is very good as it is, but could be a lot better.

DogmaD · Post by **DogmaD** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:52 pm

I would like to take a shot on creating a full body ogre. I would like to have some information though:

- how many tris can I place in the mesh?
- how big should I make the diffuse, opacity, normal and specular map? So I want to know the maximum res I should work on. We can always scale them down, but I would like to put maximum detail in the maps.

dr_amr · Post by **dr_amr** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:12 pm

hi, I made this just now, I don't like it, but I thought I might take your opinions before I decide it's useless

btw it's inspired from arabian nights

Post by **jacmoe** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:15 pm

@DogmaD:
I would rather that you helped pricorde making that truck driver!

See this:
http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... ker#119363

He's making some really cool things! And he deserves a better model than the Robot or the Ninja, don't you think?

If you decide to do it, you can donate the truck driver to the Ogre Media.

That way more people can benefit from your work.

Post by **jacmoe** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:18 pm

@dr_amr:
I like the ears and the eyes - not the rest.

If you take a long, caring look at ye olde Ogre head: then you see an old, trusty friend.

When your Ogre is done, I hope we get the same feeling from looking at him.

Jerky · Post by **Jerky** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:32 am

BTW, I am still working on my Ogre. I did the UVs then redid them and then again. Still havent gotten to details yet. I am getting used to some of Blender 2.41's new features before I export to ZBrush for final detailing and Normal mapping.

I had an idea of making him 'friendly.' I think it works, I will let you be the judge when I post some shots. Screenshots probably in a day. I'm getting there. Loin cloth is now included, as well as eyes. Getting Uvs just right is a pain

.

Chris Jones · Post by **Chris Jones** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:40 am

nice, cant wait

EvilPickles · Post by **EvilPickles** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:03 pm

Max.Power · Post by **Max.Power** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:39 am

I've worked in a community-based art development environment before, and let me tell you, it's no f'ing good. I mean, it's nice.. actually essential... for the artist to get critiques, but usually these are done on finished works, or works that are seeking some review and polish.

The artist must be the end vessel for the locus of control of his creative endeavors. In my opinion, there should be a planning or concept phase before attempting 3d work, and several itterations done on that until the right look is achieved. It's much faster than tweaking a 3d model.. and allows you to go into zbrush/3dsmax/blender/maya with some confidence and structure. Relying on community input for modelling is like arbitrarily glancing at 100 different blueprints for the same thing at once. You can't satisfy them all. My advice is for the artist to decide how he/she WANTS it to look, and the community can decide whether they like it or not after the fact.

edit: having the community input on a half-done model is not great because the community is not privy to the original *complete* artistic vision. The community sees only what you show them, not what your plans are or where the model is headed. They lack the 'gestalt' of the full vision, and are reacting to part of the picture only. I can see some possible design decisions that would have made that huge pot belly look very good. I would just stick with it now until it's done.

Jerky · Post by **Jerky** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:34 am

Jerky wrote:...crits welcome (although I might not agree with them ).

Like I said, they are welcome to crit, but that doesnt mean I am going to do every last idea. Being someone who is making a game that takes ideas from the community I am well aware that it is impossible to please everyone. Don't worry, I have my own vision for him. I will finish him the way I like, while taking good ideas from the people here. When he is done, they can take him or leave him. I can still use the model for my project, so there is no waste in time

. I enjoy good sources of motivation.

Latest is that I am ready to detail, but got Oblivion today, so didnt start on the detailing (I wonder why).

Max.Power · Post by **Max.Power** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:39 am

I didnt' mean to imply that crits weren't welcome, I was just relating my experience in regards to being pulled in different directions by a number of people. This was mostly in reaction to EvilPickle's comment.

Lee04 · Post by **Lee04** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:43 pm

Hi

This is my take on the Ogre first try this morning.,,Hard to think this came out of a programmer?

Programmers rule!

What do you think?

Lee04

EvilPickles · Post by **EvilPickles** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:04 pm

Lee04 · Post by **Lee04** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:14 pm

That is the ugliest creature I have ever seen!

Thanks! Yeh it's an Ogre

dr_amr · Post by **dr_amr** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:28 pm

@Lee04 : wow , I like this one

ps : try to decrease the size of the colored image, or just put a link to it, it's 2.6 megabytes !!

dr_amr · Post by **dr_amr** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:05 pm

this is the link to the obj file http://www.abcmedia.se/OgreHead5.OBJ

and this is 33.3 Kb jpeg version of your 2.615 MB bmp file

Lee04 · Post by **Lee04** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:17 pm

@dr_amr: Thanks for the image resizing and the link I forgott..

Happy you liked it.

Jerky · Post by **Jerky** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:50 pm

EvilPickles wrote:Wow, that colring on the model, I didn't get a chance to see it last time, due to long loading times, but WOW I really love that kind of coloring. I don't know what you did, but it's original and looks really really nice! It almost looks like the paint you would see in metallic paint, such as you would see on a Bike, or metallive object.

That coloring is a ZBrush material, it is almost impossible to get it to look like that in anything other than ZBrush. He would need to write a custom shader to match in order to get the metallic look.

My crits, since I know that is a ZBrush sculpt, are that you can tell exactly where you grabbed the flat portion of the model with the move tool and stretched it to make it look like teeth. That is one way to do them, but you can drop down to your lowest SubD, use the mask tool to mask the area where you want teeth, then use select inverse, or hide unmasked. Then subdivide. This will subdivide just that section, so you have more polys to make into teeth and it doesnt look so stretched. Use the pinch tool on the lips or zsubtract to give the lips a crease. To me, you model looks exactly like what it is, a piece of round clay, sculpted into what we see now. Keep up the good work

.

Lee04 · Post by **Lee04** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:13 pm

Hi Jerky

Thanks for the valuable ZBrush tips.
I really need that.

<Edit> How do I access the pinch tool? </Edit>

The skulls is done entirelly in 3DSMax though.

I would like to add more detail to the skin of the face but I not sure really how just a small brush dosn't cutt it. Maybe projection mode and bump tools there?

I think I need to make the texture on the face look bigger different areas going from different kind of skins and color more. To make it look bigger.

Cheers

Lee04

Ogre Forums

why not improve ogre's art content ?

My take on the Ogre

Thanks for the valuable Zbrush tips