OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

A place to show off your latest screenshots and for people to comment on them. Only start a new thread here if you have some nice images to show off!
User avatar
oddrose
Orc
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Post by oddrose » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:48 am

can't you toss in some shots of SpeedTree together with Nimble? :)
0 x

User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:09 pm

scroogie wrote:Looks great. Just out of curiosity, what kind of geometry generation does SpeedTree use? Is it similar to Prusinkiewicz´ algorithmic botany?
I have no idea :) OgreSpeedTree just takes the results and makes them work real fast with Ogre.
oddrose wrote: can't you toss in some shots of SpeedTree together with Nimble?
Hehe, TBH WindLight would be enough for this, unless you had trees tall enough to make fully volumetric clouds useful (mountains maybe, but then normally there aren't that many trees that far up). But, neither of those are owned by me so I can't.

I want to do some nicer demos later, add some HDR and some terrain etc. For the moment I've just been concentrating on the core, if you're keeping up with my blog you will have seen that it's now even faster, I've had thousands of trees and millions of blades of grass in one scene at great frame rates, that kind of thing is my focus for now.
0 x

mr. iknoweverything
Halfling
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:39 pm
Location: berlin

Post by mr. iknoweverything » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:11 pm

Could you possibly cover the terrain with grass up to the horizon?
im slowly getting tired of games using a green carpet texture as the last LOD ;)
0 x

User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:09 pm

Given infinite resources yes ;) Fillrate tends to become the limiting factor after a while. OgreSpeedGrass lets you specify the grass fading regions.
0 x

reptor
Ogre Magi
Posts: 1120
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: Finland

Post by reptor » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:45 pm

The grass rendering distance is quite low in some new-ish games I have seen, for example in Armed Assault the limit can be clearly seen also on powerful computers. The game does so much other things that the grass cannot take much processing power, it has a low priority.

Of course if the only purpose of the program is to render grass, then you can put much more of it to the screen at once.
0 x

User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:06 pm

I managed quite a lot here:
Image

Not quite to the horizon, but certainly far enough that you can't tell it's not unless you fly high.
*edit: actually kinda hard to tell in the video how far the grass goes, here's a still:
Image
The gras goes pretty much as far as the shadows do, which is in this shot almost to the horizon, at least as much as you can see with all the damn trees in the way ;)

There are trade-offs of course, by elevating the viewpoint to show you that, I've also made it easier to see the gaps between the blades more easily. At a more 'human' height to the ground, you can see them less. At that point you only need this kind of grass distance if you're on a hill, because you really can't see it end and in a way it's wasted.
0 x

User avatar
bishopnator
Goblin
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:43 am
Location: Slovakia / Switzerland
x 1

Post by bishopnator » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:12 pm

Hi, I made my own wrapper for speedtree and speedgrass in our project. I had some problems with integration:
* performance
* memory
* speedtree color tunning (different output from speed tree cad and trees rendered in ogre)
* dynamic shadows

Could you write me some details about performance and memory usage? Ie. how fast runs speedtree reference application and same forest in ogre on your computer configuration? What memory is needed for 2.5M grass blades in ogre?
0 x

User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:43 pm

I still have some more profiling to do, but at present the Reference Application still wins (OgreSpeedTree runs at about 2/3rds of the speed of the refapp with a similar sized scene). To some degree this is inevitable, the Reference Application is highly special-cased and drives DirectX / GL directly 'at the metal' with none of the niceties, so I'm highly unlikely to be able to equal it via Ogre, although the aim is to get closer.

Memory usage is very much down to configuration of the scene. Tree meshes are shared between all instances and so you only have one copy of those in memory. Renderables for the trees and their billboards are pooled, so that as forest cells go in and out of usage, their renderables get re-used by other cells that are in use. Tweaking the cell sizes and LOD distances can lead to different blends of pool usage.

Currently grass cells are not being pooled, that's currently leading to a higher memory overhead for the grass, but I'm due to resolve that this week. Once that's done they'll be similar to trees, with a shared pool of renderables which swap out as the camera moves, meaning the max GPU memory usage is derived from the size of the cells and the size of the grass region around the camera.

If you want more detail you'll have to wait until I've reinstalled the instrumented drivers on my machine, which I plan to do later this week. Last time they made my machine very unstable which is why I don't have them installed right now.
0 x

User avatar
Edman
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:57 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Contact:

Diskworld

Post by Edman » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:51 pm

I saw it! I saw the end of the world in the video :D It was there just for
a short time but I saw it, I knew world was not a sphere! :D

This looks all pretty amazing, knowing how many problems we had to
hustle SpeedTree into our project. Such a shame that these things
always come after we're finished :(
0 x
"Threehandled Mosscovered Gredunza"

akem321
Bronze Sponsor
Bronze Sponsor
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:29 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by akem321 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:26 am

Looks very nice, congratz :)
0 x

User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:01 pm

We're out of beta! :)

New screenshots and a more varied video available on the official OgreSpeedTree page.

Image Image Image Image
0 x

User avatar
Mads Kruger
Gnoblar
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:19 am
Location: Denmark

Post by Mads Kruger » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:23 pm

Excellent work as always Sinbad!

Its looking really snappy! Not that i have any use for this lib just now, but just out of pure curiosity; do you have any performance charts?
0 x
Offering cpp for mesh and food.


User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:45 pm

Mads Kruger wrote:Its looking really snappy! Not that i have any use for this lib just now, but just out of pure curiosity; do you have any performance charts?
Thanks. The video was taken on my NVIDIA 9800 GX2 which manages a solid 75-100fps with that density / LOD settings. The settings are pretty high though so if you needed to target lower end machines it's a case of pullling in the tree LOD and reducing the distance / density of the grass. You could also make the shadows a little less expensive (currently real-time PSSM with 3 shadow textures).
0 x

User avatar
Halifax
Halfling
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:30 pm

Post by Halifax » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:30 pm

Wow that's some great stuff sinbad. If some sounds were added, then I would totally believe that I was flying around in the middle of the forest. Keep up the amazing work!
0 x

User avatar
KungFooMasta
OGRE Contributor
OGRE Contributor
Posts: 2087
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:11 am
Location: WA, USA
Contact:

Post by KungFooMasta » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:06 am

While it does look good, I think the trees could use some bump mapping. The textures are great, and it feels like the tree surface should be bumpy, but the sides are so smoothed out, the trunks just look like billboards to me. (just being honest :) )
0 x
Creator of QuickGUI!

User avatar
Halifax
Halfling
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:30 pm

Post by Halifax » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:28 am

KungFooMasta wrote:While it does look good, I think the trees could use some bump mapping. The textures are great, and it feels like the tree surface should be bumpy, but the sides are so smoothed out, the trunks just look like billboards to me. (just being honest :) )
That's true. I agree with that. It would also bring it to the level of Unreal Engine 3 when rendering with SpeedTree.
0 x

User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:07 pm

Actually all the trees and leaves have normal mapping on them already. The effect is fairly subtle though and you can only really tell close up, since the grain is quite small.

Here's an example:
Image

The detail is too small to see in the video and close ups of barks don't really show off the scale involved :) I'm just using the standard SpeedTree sample media here, you can of course build trees with more exaggerated normal mapping which is what you generally see on the UE3 demos.
0 x

User avatar
Game_Ender
Ogre Magi
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 2:31 am
Location: Rockville, MD, USA

Post by Game_Ender » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:12 am

How close have you gotten compared to the SpeedTree reference implementation? (Earlier you said you were at 2/3rds the speed).
0 x

User avatar
Glajan
Kobold
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:15 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Post by Glajan » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:41 am

STUNNING :D
0 x

User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:58 am

Game_Ender wrote:How close have you gotten compared to the SpeedTree reference implementation? (Earlier you said you were at 2/3rds the speed).
In terms of features, I've improved on the reference implementation in quite a few areas, such as support for dynamic shadows, grass motion enhancements, support for alpha to coverage, runtime flexible shaders, and more. AFAIK OgreSpeedTree does everything the refapp does, plus more and is a damn sight easier to use.

It doesn't run quite as fast under the same scenario, but I'm 90% sure thats almost all down to the fact that the refapp is totally special cased & hardcoded direct to Dx9 / GL, which I can't possibly equal with a 'proper' Ogre implementation which lets you use all the normal material options, queue organisation etc. It's definitely still fast enough though, and I may find opportunites to make it still faster in future.
0 x

User avatar
lonewolff
Ogre Magi
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:58 am
x 5

Post by lonewolff » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:01 pm

I just had a look at where this was upto.

It is looking fantastic! 8)

Imagine World of Warcraft or some big MMO with these visuals! It would be a best seller!
0 x

User avatar
petrocket
Gremlin
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.0 released, new shots & video

Post by petrocket » Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:27 pm

One thing I'd like to see is what it looks like when the terrain is more rolling - like when you're half way up a hill or on top of a hill and looking out on other hills, and mountains covered in trees and grass :D
0 x
Ogre API & Manual | Ogre Wiki

blog | website | work

Follow me on twitter @ twitter.com/petrocket

User avatar
kutraj
Halfling
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:25 am

Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.0 released, new shots & video

Post by kutraj » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:46 pm

Looks fantastic! Congrats on the release!
0 x

User avatar
iloseall
Gremlin
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:54 am
Location: Beijing China
Contact:

Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.0 released, new shots & video

Post by iloseall » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:05 am

1,
I want to try use SpeedTree 5.0 (now is beta) with ogre in our project.
I has got the enaluation lisence from idv.
How can I got enaluation OgreSpeedTree?
Need send the SpeedTree Lisence to sinbad?

We should got the SpeedTree SDK source code after few months because :
from idv replay:
As discussed, I am sending you instructions for evaluating 4.2 and 5.0.
Our new version 5.0 is not yet available for license but should be in a few months
Can OgreSpeedTree use without Speedtree SDK Source Code?

2,
Can OgreSpeedTree use with speedtree 5?

3,
My project use Deferred shading.
Can OgreSpeedTree render CForestRI<> to GBuffer?

Thanks a lot.

edit:
for question 1:
thanks jacmoe:
0 x

Post Reply