Getting annoyed at Visual C++

[zarfius]

Let me start by saying that I really like Visual C# Express. I've been a C# programmer since the early days and I really can't see any reason to use anything else for C# programming.

However, when it comes to C++ I've been considerably disappointed by Visual C++ Express. I'm considering changing editors for my Ogre programming. I've heard of Code::Blocks and a couple of others, but I'm hesitant to do the switch because of the extra learning curve.

My 2 biggest complaints:
- Code completion is horrible, it never seems to work when you need it and when it does it's still painful.
- Putting together a project with lots of include directories, libs and DLL's is a lot of work, especially when there's multiple projects.

I've started developing some tools such as a level editor that uses Ogre and C++.NET. They are coming along nicely but the actual IDE is what slows me down the most. There are a number of difficulties mixing managed and unmanaged code that I have overcome, but these might be easier with something else like wxWidgets (although, I'm not looking forward to redeveloping everything I've started especially since I know .NET really well and wouldn't have a clue where to start with wxWidgets)

Just wondering what everyone else is using and what suggestions people might have?

[Klaim]

- Code completion is horrible, it never seems to work when you need it and when it does it's still painful.

Yep, that's what this thread is all about. As I said in this thread, there is hope this will be fixed in VC2010 (that should be released at the end of this year). The current most used "fix" is VisualAssistX.

- Putting together a project with lots of include directories, libs and DLL's is a lot of work, especially when there's multiple projects.

Hmm it don't seem to be a problem with the pro version (it's easy to define dependencies between projects). I never use the express version so maybe that's why you seem to have trouble with big projects?

Anyway, sure, try Code::Blocks! On windows you can use it with Mingw AND vc8/9, so it might be a good alternative for you.

[haffax]

You will have the same problems with Code::Blocks. The code completion is right often, but not always and setting up a project is pretty much the same in C::B as it is in Visual C++, overall Visual C++ is a bit smoother around the edges.

But when coming from a managed language and a good IDE going to C++ is a bit like a walk to the past. It is even worse when used the comfort of Eclipse/JDT at work.

[zarfius]

Thanks for the quick replies.

That was kind of the answer I was expecting, but not the answer I was looking for. Let's hope VC2010 does a good job at fixing things because I think I'm going to play the waiting game.

I've had a very brief look at VisualAssistX in the past, but I'm not willing to pay for it if there is a better solution on the way.

[johnhpus]

a better solution on the way

They'd have to go a long, long way to make Intellisense better than Visual Assist. As it stands Intellisense is useless and I'm skeptical that they've finally gotten it right.

I wonder whether MS ever tried to just buy Whole Tomato. To me, given the huge benefits of Visual Assist, it would seem like something MS would like to keep specific to Visual Studio.

Putting together a project with lots of include directories, libs and DLL's is a lot of work, especially when there's multiple projects

Amen. I hate setting up several projects with different configurations and being forced to copy the same include and lib paths from project to project. It wouldn't be bad if I could do it in one go in a text file, but clicking through the tree of property pages is time consuming and annoying.

Sinbad mentioned a similar frustration his blog, and said that he has found CMake to ease that problem. I intend to investigate it at some point.

[jacmoe]

Try Codelite, it seems to have a rather decent intellicode functionality.

[Pyritie]

But when coming from a managed language and a good IDE going to C++ is a bit like a walk to the past. It is even worse when used the comfort of Eclipse/JDT at work.

Haha yeah. I still use Eclipse, actually. I don't want to leave it D:

[Klaim]

a better solution on the way

They'd have to go a long, long way to make Intellisense better than Visual Assist. As it stands Intellisense is useless and I'm skeptical that they've finally gotten it right.

I wonder whether MS ever tried to just buy Whole Tomato. To me, given the huge benefits of Visual Assist, it would seem like something MS would like to keep specific to Visual Studio.

I think then really can now. I'm faithful after having read those 2 articles that explain how they do it. It seems at least as powerful as Visual assist for parsing (because it's the same symbol parsing than the compiler, but in a clean way this time) and some of the features (errors pointed even before compilation, like in .NET languages) make me think it's would be a very good start for really more advanced code analysis and architecture manipulation (because all informations are in a database, so you can simply make tools to add features by using those data yourself).

I think Whole Tomato guys are working on more advanced features to stay on top of Intellisense. Supporting thoses advanced features on top of Visual AssistX for VC8/9, then on top of interllisence for VC10. That's what I would plan anyway.

[zarfius]

Well, I've been experimenting a little with some different options this weekend.

I've tried Qt and the IDE that comes with it QtCreator. It's pretty nice and since it uses QMake (similar to CMake I believe) it should help with having to setup multiple project settings. I guess the main issue I have with it at the moment is that it's very different and I can't find all that much information on how to set up more complex projects that use multiple lib's and DLL's as in the case of Ogre.

Keeping in mind that I have no problem with using Visual Sudio for my actual game development. What I am really looking for is an easy way to create the tools such as a level editor. Qt would do the trick on the GUI side of things but there's still the issue that I don't know how to render Ogre to a Qt widget. I've noticed that this has been done before but none of the code I've tried so far has worked on the first go and I don't know enough about it yet to figure out why.

I've still got WxWidgets in the back of my mind but I haven't played with it much yet. From what I can tell the ideal IDE in this case would be Code::Blocks. I know that there are other projects in the works that use Wx in the way I would like, such as wxOGITOR.

The most important thing for me is that I don't have to replicate too much of my existing game code inside the level editor. The idea is to create a shared library between the game and the level editor so that I don't have to maintain to lots of code. That's the primary reason I'm looking for a C++ GUI solution, and it's also what .NET is such a painful choice (because I bascially have to create wrappers for everything and struggle with the conversions between managed and unmanaged code)

It's interesting to see how many others are having the same problems.