OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.0 released, new shots & video

Post by sinbad » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:45 pm

I've replied, but for the record the current stable OgreSpeedTree works with SpeedTree 4.2. OgreSpeedTree v2 will be based on SpeedTree v5 and will be released in the next couple of months - anyone who purchases OgreSpeedTree after the end of March, or who had a support contract running over that date (ie when SpeedTree v5 had the first public beta), will be entitled to a free upgrade to OgreSpeedTree v2 when it becomes available.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by sinbad » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:53 pm

I just thought I'd mention that I just released OgreSpeedTree v1.1, featuring depth-shadowmapping support (trees can fully self-shadow dynamically, and receive shadows from other objects), and also a GLSL shader pipeline for those on OpenGL.
Image Image

This is all with SpeedTree 4.2 still, OgreSpeedTree v2.0 will be released to support SpeedTree v5 in the near future too.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by Praetor » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Have you been toying with the beta? I was incredibly impressed with the new version when I tried it. This is one case where upgrading gave tangible results. The new detail in the trees, and the new modeling tool, are really great.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by sinbad » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:26 pm

Yes, I played with the SpeedTree v5 beta and it's very, very good indeed, but my problem was that the beta API didn't support the 'deep' integration that OgreSpeedTree does, it only allowed you to see enough to do an 'immediate mode' render interface style, which is not how I do things (in OgreSpeedTree all the tree structures & materials etc are first-party Ogre objects so all the normal rules apply - you can see trees in RenderQueueListeners and everything you'd normally expect - I couldn't do this with a pass-through immediate render).

SpeedTree v5 RC1 has now been released with an expanded API so I'm restarting development on OgreSpeedTree v2 now to support it - I just needed to get this iteration out the door first.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by Praetor » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:48 pm

Well the shadows, quite as expected, make a huge difference. The whole scene looks transformed. Great job with that.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by Jabberwocky » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:14 pm

sinbad wrote:This is all with SpeedTree 4.2 still, OgreSpeedTree v2.0 will be released to support SpeedTree v5 in the near future too.
The shadowing looks great, and I'm looking forward to v2.0. I think that'll be the right time for me to try this stuff out.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by SpannerMan » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:02 am

Yeah I must agree, the self shadowing makes a huge difference to the realism of the scene - superb work!
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by jacmoe » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:56 am

Congratulations for delivering a fine release.
It's a darn pity that no mere mortal can afford that - but that doesn't make it any less impressive :)
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by sinbad » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:17 pm

jacmoe wrote:It's a darn pity that no mere mortal can afford that - but that doesn't make it any less impressive :)
Unfortunately if I'm to continue to eat & live, I have to charge for a few things ;) And the model that works best when you want to continue to release free / open source code too (as I definitely do) is the low volume, premium end of the market. That's the reality I'm afraid - believe me, I would love to be able to just give everything I do away, it's far more fun, but the bank manager doesn't recognise kudos as a valid currency :)
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by Praetor » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:36 pm

It's more the license of speedtree itself that's tough. If I'm doing an app involving outdoor rendering it has to be "big enough" budget-wise to justify it (since it is a per-title license) which I think is actually quite big. Like I said I was really impressed with it overall, but in the end I couldn't justify the cost for any of our current projects.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by jacmoe » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:35 pm

Sinbad: I meant the cost of SpeedTree itself.
I really hope OgreSpeedTree will put a lot of bread on your table. :)
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by jjp » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:35 am

For what you get, though, SpeedTree really is a bargain. I hope some day I'll have a project where I can use it :)
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - 1.1 released, depth shadowmapping support

Post by sinbad » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:52 pm

jjp wrote:For what you get, though, SpeedTree really is a bargain. I hope some day I'll have a project where I can use it :)
I'm biased, but I agree. It really is a fantastic piece of software, you'd have trouble writing something as good yourself even if you had ten times the license fee to fund it, IMO. When you come down to it, it's something like paying one developer for a couple of months. If you want the best, it's easily worth it.

Plus, going for top-end quality like this is a great advert for Ogre. I think it's good that we can cover the bases right from completely unfunded hobbyists up to bigger users with more demanding requirements, through modular bits they can choose to fit their budgets. Going foward I hope to slot more things into this puzzle.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by sinbad » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:05 pm

Another update, OgreSpeedTree v2.0 beta was just released:
Image

Here are some of the changes you can expect:
  • Upgrade to SpeedTree v5 - supporting all the great new features. See the SpeedTree site for more details on this release.
  • More lighting options - Ambient Occlusion, Ambient Contrast, Specular Lighting, Transmission Lighting, Global Light Scalar, HDR.
  • Improved LOD fading - LOD transitions are now implemented via less perceptible techniques thanks to SpeedTree v5.
  • Dynamic soft self-shadowing via depth shadowmaps - (was also demonstrated on SpeedTree 4.2 in OgreSpeedTree 1.1.0)
  • Improved alpha to coverage support - alpha to coverage rendering has been significantly improved and is now enabled by default (you must render with at least 2xMSAA to see the effect), resulting in significantly smoother foliage edges and smoother fade transitions.
More shots coming soon once I can make a demo that lives up to the kind of output I can get now :)
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by spookyboo » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:17 pm

Beautiful :shock:
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by spacegaier » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:39 pm

spookyboo wrote:Beautiful :shock:
Dito. Can't wait to see a video of this...
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by sinbad » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:27 pm

Thanks! A video will be a little while, because I want to work on a brand new demo instead of the relatively technical tests I've used so far to simply prove the features performance. The plan is to build something really nice looking for the RC1 or final. Although I guess I could do a quickie video just for you - I have no upgraded grass support yet though so it'll be just trees.

In the meantime, here's more screenshot teasing (yes, the self-shadows are dynamic - and combined with AO):
Image
Image

I'm just glad to have got the beta done, I can go to my conference next week happier, and return to spend more time on getting Ogre 1.7 ready.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by spacegaier » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:33 pm

If it will be an open demo (and not only limited to your potential customers), then I'll be happy to wait and will forget the video ;)
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by db123 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:57 pm

nice, but our company use unreal engine which contain this.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by sinbad » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:03 pm

Yep, Unreal Engine is a big user of SpeedTree. We're a bit cheaper though ;)
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by Kerion » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:40 pm

As always, looks awesome Sinbad.

As to the price of SpeedTree: It's really not that expensive. 10,000 dollars, give or take, is really a bargain given what you get. Sure, it prices it completely out of the unfunded or small budget market, but that's not their target market anyway.

Given that UE3 costs several hundred thousand dollars with all the bells and whistles, SpeedTree is really quite reasonably priced for what you get. If I had funding for my game project, I'd very very seriously consider spending part of it on SpeedTree, because for the cost, it adds an amazing amount of "pop" to a game.
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by sinbad » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:13 pm

Yes, you certainly get what you pay for. UE is expensive because it's hugely productive, and if you have a big budget anyway it's going to be a solid choice.

SpeedTree itself is priced very well I think (biased, of course), it costs about the same as paying a good coder for just over a month at developed-nation salaries, and there's no way they'd be able to match it in that time - not even the runtime, never mind the tools that come with it. And, you get the full source code when you license it so you're not even restricted as regards personal modifications once you have it in your hands. When taken as a whole, it's a pretty awesome deal, really.

So yeah, it only applies to those who would have the budget to pay a developer developed-nation salaries for a month or so, but that's a pretty wide base, including small companies - if foliage is important to their project anyway.
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How to cast one tree with raycast?

Post by njw1985 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:43 am

I add OgreSpeedTree to my scene,but how to select one tree from my scene with mouse?
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by sinbad » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:09 pm

This is not the place for OgreSpeedTree support since it's a commercial product. Please contact me via email (as you have done previously).
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Re: OgreSpeedTree - v2.0 released, SpeedTree v5 support

Post by xavier » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:22 pm

Kerion wrote: Given that UE3 costs several hundred thousand dollars with all the bells and whistles
You missed a zero.
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