why wont you DIE visual studio?!~!~

[JaJDoo]

i wanted to share my horrible afternoon with you

its been a while that i didn't have time to sit down and program for fun with ogre (a few months)
so i opened my old installation of VS .net and started setting up a new ogre app with the new release

from there everything went down hill.

i started getting weird stuff from the build, concerning MS libraries stuff.
so i searched it, and found and found that its something to do with VS framework, and the recommendation was reinstall.
i decided i'd better just install the VC express, but its install figured i already have a VS on my machine, and sent me to install the VS SP 2.
the SP installation said i need a PRE installation tool.
and the pre-installation said he needs VS disc.
i inserted the disc, and the tool wont recognize it, no matter what i did.

so i decided to reinstall/uninstall VS.
vs uninstall had some random abstract reason why it couldn't install/uninstall/reinstall.

at that moment i entered a magical endless loop with no loose ends.
VC++exprs wont install becuase i already have VS, i cant uninstall the VS i have, and the i couldn't fix/repair the installation i have to for the missing dll.

i was so angry i decided to format the disc VS was installed on. it felt good, but in retrospect wasn't really that smart.
now, my VS isn't installed on C drive (where my windows is) so i was left with a field of registry landmines.

yup, the loop remained.

4 hours of tedious internet searching, and numerous attempts to fix the problem with all kinds of voodoo and minesweeping techniques, manual searches around regedit, and lots of uninstall and reg tools yielded no fruit..

i think ill be using a different IDE now.

[jacmoe]

Don't blame it on Visual Studio, blame it on the platform itself.

[JaJDoo]

while were at it, code::blocks or eclipse?
my favorite IDE has always been eclipse, but i remember having major problems with setting up a functioning app, has this been resolved or worked around somehow ?

any major disadvantages for not working with VC?

[KungFooMasta]

I just wanted to throw in the fact that I and several people I know have installed Visual Studio Express on multiple machines without any problems whatsoever...

Not sure what is meant by registry landmines, or what to think of the fact that you burned VS to a rewritable CD/DVD and then formatted it later. Express and Studio work side by side with no problems.

[JaJDoo]

i formatted the hard disk drive it was installed on

I just wanted to throw in the fact that I and several people I know have installed Visual Studio Express on multiple machines without any problems whatsoever...

truly?
vc# express install seeing ghosts:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1152 ... ual-studio

look around, its not an isolated case.

[mkultra333]

I have VC2008 express and VC6 (student edition, I have a lot of old projects I still use) installed on XP and they seem to get along ok. Just mentioning for informational purposes, I can imagine the grueling horror of your situation, JaJDoo. VC6 used to hang on rare occasions when compiling, but that hasn't happened in a while, one of the service packs may have fixed the issue.

[Fulmens]

while were at it, code::blocks or eclipse?
my favorite IDE has always been eclipse, but i remember having major problems with setting up a functioning app, has this been resolved or worked around somehow ?

any major disadvantages for not working with VC?

I worked with the three IDE (VS, Eclipse, CB) for C++.
Eclipse was such a pain to use. Maybe it's good for Java, but I'll never go back to it for C++
I liked CB editor, but Visual Studio was the reference compiler for the project, and even if you can integrate VS Compiler in CB, the debugger is another problem...
So far Visual Studio was the IDE I used and liked best. Yes, they are quirks that may make you cry (manifests and CRT...Argh !) but it's ok when you got it, and if you search enough, you'll find a lot of add-ins to help you. And I find the debugger really good (sometimes you think too much about the text editor and totally forget about the debugger)

But if you really want to avoid VS, take a look at Netbeans. I only used it for a few hours, but from what I saw it's not impossible that it may make switch IDEs It's way more responsive than Eclipse (the one thing I truly hated about Eclipse) and got a lot of useful built in functionalities (really want to try refactoring).
Too bad I couldn't install VS2010 beta because he wants 5Go on my system hard drive to see if it's worth it.

[jacmoe]

I'll add another praise for NetBeans.
That's my primary IDE for web development (PHP) and it's great.

[Kyle_Katarn]

I'll concur with Netbeans. Possibly the nicest IDE I've ever worked with (had to work with it in an "Introduction to Java" module for my C++ class).

[jacmoe]

Eclipse (and Aptana for php development) is slow in comparison with NetBeans.
NetBeans might be lesser known than Eclipse, but who cares?
They managed to do almost everything right.
They are also using Mercurial, btw.
Haven't tried it for C++ development to be honest, but I might do that sometime.

One issue with it is that, since it's Java, I am much faster than the auto-suggestion/code completetion (which is surprisingly good actually).
So thumbs up!

[nikki]

While reading the topic title, I just realised: DIE is an anagram of IDE.

[JaJDoo]

While reading the topic title, I just realised: DIE is an anagram of IDE.

yeah, im a genius.
of sorts..

now my genius wondered even farther.. i dare you to find a single post by jacmoe that does not contain even a single
i think we can make a forum game around this..

[nikki]

now my genius wondered even farther.. i dare you to find a single post by jacmoe that does not contain even a single
i think we can make a forum game around this..

The last by jacmoe (as of now) on this thread: http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 28#p384628

[JaJDoo]

oh lord.. why didnt i just go with code::blocks?

after vc finally forced me to format c:\ y, i wanted to get ogre started FAST. so i downloaded vc++ express, and after 2 tedious days got CEGUI to work with me. ( in the process i managed to get CE himself to call me an immature idiot )

now i remember why i hated intellisense.
i got stuff massed up and decided to delete files and recreate some stuff from scratch. one of my files has the same name as before, and for some unknown reason i have no intellisense whatsoever when typing in that specific file. i had to change a class name because vc kept insisting that class is a template (??), and when trying to reach the declaration, i reach the NEW class i made, which is not declared as a template (and was not declared as such in its prior state). no matter what i change in that file, nothing changes, even DELETING and creating a new file does that..

all that, because i was lazy (code::blocks doesnt have a wizard for ogre app..... i blame jacmoe.)
i miss eclipse....

[danharibo]

I'm having a simmilar problem with Office 2007. I have The Home and Student Trial on my netbook (Which is expired), and Now I want to install the 2010 Beta. Except it won't let me uninstall the 2007 Trial. It always gives the "Office 2007 has not been uninstalled". Even after removing all of the registry keys. Meaning I'm now stuck with a broken installation of office.

[CrazyEddie]

in the process i managed to get CE himself to call me an immature idiot

When this happens, you know you have 'arrived'!

My input on MSVS / MSVC++? The more time I spend away from it, the more I hate it when I am forced to use it; the only part of it that's remotely useful to me is the debugger, and IMO even that used to be better in the past. I don't want all this fluffy GUI bullshit, it just gets in the way (says the GUI guy )

CE.

[JaJDoo]

oh great... it did it again.
i defined a new enum.
when i tried to change it, it wouldn't chnange. clicking "show declaration" on the enum he refuses to confirm
( this : )

Code: Select all

enum object_type
{...
	VAL = 3
..};

VC responds with ............. VAL is not declared. awesome, thanks VC!

at least i fixed it with violence. i like it when fixing a problem involves the delete key.
-----------------

is it hard to import my project to C::B? i'

[Kojack]

I don't want all this fluffy GUI bullshit, it just gets in the way

Would you like it more if it was skinned in Taharez Look?

[CrazyEddie]

I don't want all this fluffy GUI bullshit, it just gets in the way

Would you like it more if it was skinned in Taharez Look?

hehe - not especially, no

It was my experience that as things have gotten more "user friendly" it's become somewhat more difficult to achieve some tasks that used to be really simple. This is nothing new though. When I first got VC++ 6, I still found myself reverting to Turbo C++ for some tasks (some really low level debugging stuff). In VC++ 6 (and 7/7.1 I think), it was pretty easy to just grab an .exe file and debug into it without all the "project" crap that you now (appear to) need, yes it's pretty easy to set up an "empty" project and use it to debug some random .exe but doing so is an extra, unnecessary step - this trend continues as the dumbing down marches on.

It's the same thing with the project files in general - why make it so that a VC++ 9 project will not load in VC++ 8 when the content is exactly the same except for the version numbers? Obviously we all know why, it's to drive the take up of the 'latest' crap they churn out. Frankly, IMO, it's pathetic and I'm glad I switched to something else (in my case I switched to linux and do not use an IDE at all any more, and have found myself much more comfortable and productive).

Now of course I'm not saying everyone should do the same, people should use whichever tools allow them to get their work done. I would however encourage people to give the various approaches to development a fair crack of the whip. Admittedly it's very hard to change existing habits and give up what appears to be comfortable and familiar. I do, however, think that many people eventually reach a moment of enlightenment and never look back; until that point they tend to reject the suggestion and scoff at it as being 'old hat' or a throw back to 30 years ago or something. The fact that the approach still exists and is widely used by many, many developers says it all really (at least outside the "padded cell" of the Windows world And you guys who have no choice because "the man" tells you what tools you must use - you have my sympathy).

CE.

[Kerion]

As much as the people who use text editors and command lines don't want to hear this, there are actually things an IDE can do that Vi and makefiles can't. That really isn't the question. The question is, are those things actually productivity gains to you. If they aren't, than an IDE is just a bloated code editor for you. For those of us who actually find productivity gain in a lot of those features, the IDE becomes more than just a glorified text editor. Neither way to develop is more valid, or invalid, than the other. In the end, it's about writing good code. The tools that help you do that are the tools you should use. As in most discussions concerning all things technology, I see a lot of subjective opinion put forward as objective fact.

[CrazyEddie]

Not reached that enlightened moment yet then?

there are actually things an IDE can do that Vi and makefiles can't.

While this statement, taken at face value, is true, it is necessary to understand that those who choose not to use IDEs use more tools and facilities than simply an editor and makefiles - because, as alluded to in your post, they have the power of the command line, which definitely has potential to be more powerful than any IDE will - or can - ever be. Personally I agree with everything else you say though

CE.

[JaJDoo]

reminds me of the luthiers vs factory made instruments debates..

edit:
wait.. thinking about it, no it doesn't..

[jacmoe]

As much as the people who use text editors and command lines don't want to hear this, there are actually things an IDE can do that Vi and makefiles can't.

While I agree with you on principle, you have chosen a very bad example: Vi can do everything an IDE can do, and more.

Vi in action:
http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 50#p344910
Emacs in action:
http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 50#p343950

But, in principle..

[merlinblack]

I use what ever is good for the job at hand - sed, vim, bash, Code::Blocks, qtCreator, a large hammer, petrol and a zippo, 12 gauge and a fast car - they all have there uses.

I don't particularly dislike VS, but there is now a lot of stuff in it I never use. Lately qtCreator is my favorite flavor, and both CB and qtCreator deal with CMake quite nicely too. More and more however I find myself wanting to figure out cross-compiling so I can stay in my Linux comfort zone.

But that's just me.

[lonewolff]

I must admit I have never had a day of trouble with VS express since I started using it in 2003.

I have two machines running both 2003 and 2008 (for various reasons). I find it to be the best IDE available.