Project Sinbad

Anything and everything that's related to OGRE or the wider graphics field that doesn't fit into the other forums.
Post Reply
User avatar
jacmoe
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 20570
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Project Sinbad

Post by jacmoe » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:31 pm

0 x
/* Less noise. More signal. */
Ogitor Scenebuilder - powered by Ogre, presented by Qt, fueled by Passion.
OgreAddons - the Ogre code suppository.

User avatar
:wumpus:
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 3067
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:53 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post by :wumpus: » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:34 pm

And what's D?
0 x

User avatar
Sarev0k
Halfling
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:47 am
Location: Oregon, United States
Contact:

Post by Sarev0k » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:39 pm

Its supposed to be the next evolution of C++ that someone came up with. More information can be found here.

I really don't think it'll catch on the way C# has though.
0 x
Image
An open source 3D real-time strategy game engine (under development)

User avatar
haffax
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 4823
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Post by haffax » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:42 pm

D reminds me of E.
0 x
team-pantheon programmer
creators of Rastullahs Lockenpracht

User avatar
IoN_PuLse
Goblin
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:54 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by IoN_PuLse » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:43 pm

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/ Gah! You beat me to it!
0 x

User avatar
_mental_
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Contact:

Post by _mental_ » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:48 am

I experimented using D back in 2001 and quite liked it. I sent in a few patches for Linux but at the time it was still in early stages and I moved onto something else. Perhaps its time to take another look.
0 x

User avatar
Kojack
OGRE Moderator
OGRE Moderator
Posts: 7152
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:35 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
x 19

Post by Kojack » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:41 am

E was an amazing language. I learnt OO coding with it, before I had any idea what C++ was. It was made by Wouter van Oortmerssen, the guy who made Cube, Pan Quake, Fisheye Quake and worked on the game Farcry.
Here's a list of the programming languages he's written: http://wouter.fov120.com/proglang/index.html. There's about 42 of them. :)

Of course this is slightly off topic of Ogre implemented in D, but once I hear someone mention E, my all time favorite language, I just can't shut up. :)

(And just 3 days ago my students and I were playing Cube. It's multiplayer cooperative map editor is pretty unique)
0 x

User avatar
charlie
Greenskin
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Austria
Contact:

Post by charlie » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:50 am

Personally I always get confused with that one letter languages
C,E,D,R,A,S...
who should remember all of these... :D
0 x

User avatar
johnhpus
Platinum Sponsor
Platinum Sponsor
Posts: 1186
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:49 am

Post by johnhpus » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:51 am

Am I the only one that thinks that naming a port of Ogre "Sinbad" after Ogre's creater will surely lead to confusion?

Image
0 x

User avatar
monster
OGRE Community Helper
OGRE Community Helper
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Post by monster » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:04 pm

Image
0 x

User avatar
sinbad
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 19263
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
x 2
Contact:

Post by sinbad » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:36 pm

Yeah, this has been going for a while but really hasn't got anywhere. Interesting idea though.
0 x

User avatar
jacmoe
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 20570
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by jacmoe » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:39 pm

The Ogre is spreading - programmer by programmer, country by contry, game by game, language by language ... !! 8)
0 x
/* Less noise. More signal. */
Ogitor Scenebuilder - powered by Ogre, presented by Qt, fueled by Passion.
OgreAddons - the Ogre code suppository.

User avatar
PeterNewman
Greenskin
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:34 am
Location: Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Post by PeterNewman » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:53 am

"I am Sinbad of Ogre. Resistance is Futile"
0 x

User avatar
temas
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:19 pm
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Contact:

Post by temas » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:41 am

If Sinbad made Ogre which spawned Sinbad..... uh oh... :twisted:
0 x

User avatar
Kencho
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 4011
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:28 pm
Location: Burgos, Spain
x 1
Contact:

Post by Kencho » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:47 am

Sinbad's OGRE vs OGRE's Sinbad.

This is surreal, pals!! :?
0 x
Image

csauls
Gnoblar
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:43 am

Post by csauls » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:49 am

Howdy. I'm the crazy son-of-a-gun that started the Sinbad project late last year. Its stalled at the pre-alpha for four good reasons:

1 -- We (the three or four of us working on it) are discussing how to translate some features, in particular the Events subsystem, into D, and how we might make Sinbad aware of the physics and 3d sound engines we wish to couple it with.

2 -- We were waiting for the D language to mature just a little bit more, whic hit now has, and so is more ready for the work we wish to do. :) Yay D.

3 -- We were waiting for OGRE's big 1.0 -- more Yay! :)

4 -- Two of us, myself included, have had to deal with sudden and unexpected life-crisis that sucked up all our free time for a while. I'm starting to have more again, and so Sinbad is getting more attention again.

So yeah, its far from forgotten, and we're currently looking over all of OGRE's code again and planning strategies and changing our old strategies (like replacing the current policy of making singletons via a mixin-template with a new policy of using abstract-static classes, something that wasn't as feasable in D until not long ago).

If anyone has questions or suggestions, I'm stupid enough to be available for them. :) And yes, I have wondered if naming the library after OGRE's creator might cause havoc in the long run... but hey, he didn't seem upset about it when I wrote him about it, so I guess its alright.

You may now return to your previously scheduled whatnots.
0 x
Chris Sauls

User avatar
:wumpus:
OGRE Retired Team Member
OGRE Retired Team Member
Posts: 3067
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:53 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post by :wumpus: » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:40 am

That makes things more clear, but there's still one question I have. Are you pulling a Leedguitar, as in, porting the full Ogre over, or just making a binding?
0 x

csauls
Gnoblar
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:43 am

Post by csauls » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:43 pm

We're pulling, to use your word, a Leedguitar. Primary reason is simple: OGRE is written in C++, and D and C++ do not play well together when Classes are involved. There are some ways of making it work, but they would destroy performance completely, so a binding is just out of the question. This is part of the reason its taking a while to get through the initial design phase.

Do be assured, though, that in any case where Sinbad code is little more than refactored OGRE code will have the original authors' names splattered all over it.
0 x
Chris Sauls

User avatar
jacmoe
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 20570
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by jacmoe » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:53 pm

It appears to be a complete 'Leedgitar' ! :)

[edit]damn! i am too slow - csauls beat me to it :wink: [/edit]

@csauls: In case you don't know, Leedgitar is the guy who ported Ogre to C# - and named it Axiom
0 x
/* Less noise. More signal. */
Ogitor Scenebuilder - powered by Ogre, presented by Qt, fueled by Passion.
OgreAddons - the Ogre code suppository.

User avatar
PeterNewman
Greenskin
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:34 am
Location: Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Post by PeterNewman » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:06 am

I find it interesting, as the now two ports of OGRE says: Ogre's design is good. Not just the code implementing it.

Sinbad has mentioned that he does OO design as his day job(?) so I guess it makes sense, but it's all props to the design. Wish my stuff was half as elegant ;-)
0 x

csauls
Gnoblar
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:43 am

Post by csauls » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:43 am

jacmoe :: Ahh... actually I didn't know that. And it really makes the expression make a ton more sense to me now... heh. :) I'd seen that there was a C# port -- in fact that was one of the things that led me to write Sinbad and ask permission to do a port, as it showed he was open to the idea. That and the design of OGRE just rocks, and might help bring out some of D's features more than some other engines I'd considered porting.
0 x
Chris Sauls

User avatar
Goosey
Halfling
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:33 am
Location: Ohio, USA
Contact:

Post by Goosey » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:58 am

While your certainly free to do what you wish on project Sinbad, it seems odd to me that you wish to couple physics and sound with it. If your goal is to create a game engine or something of that sort, as opposed to doing a port, you should clarify that in your mission statement. :)

I would encourage you to look for ways to not have to couple in those other systems. I don't know enough of D to know what it supports, but assuming it supports dynamic link libraries, and assuming your porting the plugin architecture of OGRE.. Perhaps consider implementing those other systems as plugins rather then coupling them?

Interesting project, I wish you luck :)
0 x
I <3 the OGRE Wiki, and SO SHOULD YOU! :)

User avatar
jacmoe
OGRE Retired Moderator
OGRE Retired Moderator
Posts: 20570
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by jacmoe » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:19 pm

IMO coupling like that takes away the Ogreness of the Ogre port.
0 x
/* Less noise. More signal. */
Ogitor Scenebuilder - powered by Ogre, presented by Qt, fueled by Passion.
OgreAddons - the Ogre code suppository.

csauls
Gnoblar
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:43 am

Post by csauls » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:31 pm

D does support dynamic linking (via the std.loader module) and we will be preserving OGRE's plugin system, more-or-less. My wording probably could've been quite a bit better. The physics and 3d sound engine coupling is a future goal for after Sinbad is in working order, and will probably be a new project in its own right. There has been some consideration of providing a hook for a simple 3d sound engine, in that it wouldn't be hard to just have objects know their sound(s). Then positioning, panning, volume shifting, etc become very simple, as objects can already calculate their relative distances and positions. But that would either be a set of subclasses in a seperate library, or some conditionally compiled functionality via one of D's versioning switches.
0 x
Chris Sauls

Post Reply