Which Linux is Best for Ogre?

[genericplayer]

If you are going to complain about why experianced (technical) users use gentoo, at least understand the reasons first.

I am not complaining about why experienced technical users use gentoo. I am saying that not many do. Most experienced technical users dislike gentoo because they see that is has no benefits, and have already been using superior systems for years. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are a few experienced admins using gentoo, but its certainly not any more than other distros. Claiming that gentoo attracts experienced technical users is simply wrong, it attracts new linux users who think they are getting something special with gentoo, it repells experienced technical users who realize gentoo doesn't offer anything that's not available elsewhere in a more convenient system.

You can keep lots of linux distros up to date with a simple command, and even do it using packages the distro creaters compiled for you so you don't have to waste time. Gentoo is not special in being kept up to date, and its package management isn't special either, BSD people have had the same thing for years, only with the addition of binary packages as well. Arch linux seems to let me keep up to date with just a simple command, and yet it doesn't involve several hours of compiling for no reason.

Keep in mind, there are benefits to compiling software yourself, namely that you can compile it with optional features/etc. But gentoo needs to pay more attention to the BSD ports tree: where you can compile the stuff you need to, and use binary packages for the stuff you don't need to. And its simple and easy to compile custom binary packages yourself on a seperate machine and pkg_add them on hundreds of machines. Gentoo has totally ignored the advice of experienced technical users who repeatedly told the developers what is wrong with gentoo and why it is unsuitable for a server environment. That's not how you attract experienced technical users.

[litobyte]

Mmm yes but I don't like this practice/ideology.

Compile everything you use on your machine assure that the software is working, but this concept is ok if you plan to just use some programs, eg: playing games, using office, browse the internet and so on.

But what happens if you are a developer, you write load of code, it compiles great on your state-of-the-art gentoo super-fast super-efficent super-IHAVEONLYWHATISREQUIREDFRESHBUILT distribution, but as soon as you furnish your source code version to the rest of the world you discover that:

- your multiplatform configure script only works on your machine.
- The version of autoconf and automake you used is compatible with the 10% of the linux user-base.
- Your work is half spread and will only compile on your super machine.
- You get frustrated and start to think IT is just a way of self-pain making
- You really start to cry out loud for your old Amiga computer

Infact I love standards.

Personally I'm stick with mandrake 9.2 gnome with a p3866 and an nvidia gf4ti card. There is no GL game I couldn't compile have fun and also have a play with source and recompile. I played ut2004 for a while on the internet with it, and also had a look to ogre0.14 some time ago. With URPMI and a good internet connection there is nothing you can't do with this simple2install and complete distro.

I had the chance to try Linux Suse 9.3 Live 64 bit on my AMD64 it went all fine but it didnt' set the appropriate monitor refresh rate, so when system went to X the monitor just switched off, and well...i counld't see it in its own glory

I'll try some other live distro soon.

[genericplayer]

litobyte, none of that has anything to do with gentoo. Gentoo is no worse in standards compliance than any other distro, they are all the same software, the only differences with linux distros are where things are put, what sort of config tools exist or don't exist, and what kind of package management they have.

There's plenty of stupid assumptions in lots of software that makes it unportable and often even buggy, but that was the case long before gentoo even existed, and can just as easily happen when someone is using any other linux distro.

[:wumpus:]

Well, I *am* a technical person and after years of programming experience with Linux and various unices (on embedded devices and PCs) I think I could call myself an experienced linux admin. Not a 'dweeb that just follows some instructions'.

I have used other distributions like Suse, Slackware (ever since 3.0) that's more than some people can say. And I just like what gentoo offers, I like compiling everything from source. You can call it time wasting or whatever you want, after all it *is* open source and the idea of having all the source on my pc comforts me. Is that so strange? It can builds and update packages automatically (unlike LFS and friends), but I can patch bugs when I need to, look at how programs do things to prevent reinventing wheels, etc. That's what open source is for me.

I feel very insulted by all this Gentoo bashing. I don't think it's deserved either because I do respect other distributions, and people using them. This will be my last words on this and I will not read this topic anymore.

[LordMyth]

Hey, of COURSE you can compile your programs for generic x86 systems, it's not because your system is compiled with super-deluxe-only-for-you optimalisations that your gcc can only compile things for your system. If you compile something with gcc in gentoo, all those SDOFY optimalisations do nothing. It would produce the same program as if you'd compile it on your SuSE or whatever distro you use.

[genericplayer]

Well, I *am* a technical person and after years of programming experience with Linux and various unices (on embedded devices and PCs) I think I could call myself an experienced linux admin. Not a 'dweeb that just follows some instructions'.

I think that would be a mistake. Programming and being an experienced admin are not at all the same thing. I don't claim to be an experienced programmer just because I have done programming. I'm not trying to insult you here, but its insulting to those of us who have spent years as unix admins to claim that everyone who's used a unix machine is just as qualified as us. The simple fact is, if you were an experienced unix admin, you would realize that having source available doesn't mean you need to waste time and have your machine useless for hours compiling everything yourself.

I also didn't say you were a dweeb that just follows some instructions, or that all gentoo users are. I simply said that gentoo does not require any extra special knowledge, you CAN simply follow the directions. Its insulting to try to pretend that using gentoo makes you know more about unix than people using other distros. Obviously there is a middle ground between being new to linux and being an experienced technical user, and of course most people are somewhere in that middle ground.

I feel very insulted by all this Gentoo bashing. I don't think it's deserved either because I do respect other distributions, and people using them. This will be my last words on this and I will not read this topic anymore.

I am not bashing gentoo, I am simply saying that your claims about how it attracts experienced technical users is false. That claims about it being faster, or easier to update, or teaching you more, or letting you do things other distros cannot are all false. You can fix bugs on any system, open source doesn't mean you have to compile everything yourself, it means if you need to you can. So if you find a bug in package X and want to fix it, install the source package and fix it, its not a problem at all.

I am not trying to make you feel insulted, but those of us who have been actual unix admins for years and are the very definition of experienced technical users also get insulted when people try to claim gentoo is for us, when its not. Its not fair for you to make claims about how amazing gentoo is and then get all upset when someone counters those claims. And its not respecting other distros when you say things about gentoo that imply other distros are less capable. If you feel qualified to make misleading claims about gentoo and how it compares to other unix systems, and speak for experienced admins in the process, you should be able to deal with an experienced admin speaking to the contrary without getting so upset.

If you like gentoo that's fine, feel free to use it. But don't lie about how wonderful it is and put down other unix systems that you may not have ever even tried. There's nothing wrong with using gentoo, and I don't mean to critisize anyone for using it. Its just that people tend to get upset with gentoo users tossing thinly veiling insults at other unixes around on forums and such.

[LordMyth]

OK you, stop talking stupid things about Gentoo.
Has anybody tried BeatrIX yet? It's just COOL! I'm amazed such thing can exist! But it maybe a bit hard to get a working development environment with it. But it's basically Ubuntu, and apt-get is included with it, so it shouldn't be a very hard thing to do.

BTW, I tried SuSE and Ubuntu, and I really think Gentoo is waay better then all those. Have YOU tried it allready? Because if we shouldn't say anything about how good Gentoo is without haven't used other distro's then you also shouldn't say anything about gentoo.

[genericplayer]

Have YOU tried it allready? Because if we shouldn't say anything about how good Gentoo is without haven't used other distro's then you also shouldn't say anything about gentoo.

Yes, I have. I have tried dozens of linux distros, including ones that no longer exist. I have also tried 5 BSDs, OSX, and several commercial unix systems. That's how I know that gentoo is not special, and isn't God's gift to unix, and the best unix system the world has ever seen. Its just another linux distro, nothing special. I didn't say you shouldn't say anything good about gentoo, I said you shouldn't imply that its better than other unixes that you've never even tried.

Saying "I like gentoo" is fine. Even saying "I like gentoo because I find portage to be easy and works well for me" is just dandy. Its saying "gentoo is the best because it lets you have source code" or "gentoo is for experienced technical users" is insulting to other systems that are just as good, and is also just plain wrong.

Again, I am not saying gentoo is bad, so don't be so insulted, I am simply countering the false claims made here, namely that gentoo requires the deepest linux experience to use, and that it attracts technical people.

[BoorishId]

i beg to differ but i use gentoo, or i was before i had to move to windows erghhh. Anyways you can do plenty while you compile software, i mean i read someone say that building your software makes your machine useless. Well if you spent the utmost time in linux you would compile your software and then simply press alt f2 walla a new virtual console so you can do whatever you wish while the software compiles. What is the point of basing Gentoo? Thats great you have an opinion but thats all it is, it is simply your opinion and it will not affect the rest of the world. Here is my opinion any Red Hat based distro sucks ass! But im not going to get all pissy over people wanting to use red hat, i could care less it works fine for them. Gentoo works fine for us who like to have source to all of out software so we can mess with it. Before using Gentoo i built my distro by downloading things as in needed them and compiled them all by hand no package manager. Gentoo has illiminated all this crazy work to build a source based distro but it has the same benefits, Also for those of you who like to learn more about how things work a stage1 install of Gentoo will be very educational a lot more than popping in a GUI 20 minute installer.

[litobyte]

I wan't bashin Gentoo either, even because I never tried it.

Many collegues of mine suggested to me to step to that distro. But I simply didn't have the time to.

When I say: I don't like this practice/ideology. (of compiling everything from source) is just a quick answer, because in other terms, I also like the thing because it makes my computer less vulnerable to viruses.

Infact I always downloaded a source package if we are talking about end user stuff like games, appz, etc.. which can just run good if you compile them onto your machine and against your actual libs version.

But if you tell me that to install and configure from scratch an OS, I should spend more than 1 working day, because I should even recompile Gnome itself, well then I say NO! There is no point in doing that as a practice. You could do it, for learning purposes, but then ? Then it becomes self pain making.

And this doesn't regard only distros like Gentoo, but also Debian, Slackware, and so on. I like automation, I like tested things that work.
I don't like to spend the entire day on the console.

[LordMyth]

You could use their GRP packages, those are precompiled. BTW, you can just let everything compile at night, most people do it like that...
And, BTW; you don't need to be scared for Linux viruses yet, they simply don't exist.

[genericplayer]

Anyways you can do plenty while you compile software, i mean i read someone say that building your software makes your machine useless. Well if you spent the utmost time in linux you would compile your software and then simply press alt f2 walla a new virtual console so you can do whatever you wish while the software compiles.

Compiling uses up almost all of your CPU time, and especially with newer gcc versions, alot of RAM too. I am well aware of virtual terminals that we are stuck with on typical i386 machines, as well as real terminals on servers, and ssh. The problem isn't that a single terminal session has something on it, its that your hardware is being used for compiling instead of doing its job.

What is the point of basing Gentoo? Thats great you have an opinion but thats all it is, it is simply your opinion and it will not affect the rest of the world. Here is my opinion any Red Hat based distro sucks ass! But im not going to get all pissy over people wanting to use red hat, i could care less it works fine for them. Gentoo works fine for us who like to have source to all of out software so we can mess with it.

What is the point of ignoring what people are saying and just trying to argue for no reason? Nobody is bashing gentoo, simply countering the false claims that it is better than everything else. It is not, deal with it. Gentoo is not the first unix system that lets you have source, all 3 open source BSDs have been this way since long before gentoo existed, and tons of linux distros provide source.

Before using Gentoo i built my distro by downloading things as in needed them and compiled them all by hand no package manager. Gentoo has illiminated all this crazy work to build a source based distro but it has the same benefits, Also for those of you who like to learn more about how things work a stage1 install of Gentoo will be very educational a lot more than popping in a GUI 20 minute installer.

But not just gentoo eliminated all this crazy work, so did every other linux distro that has ever existed. So that's not special is it. And no, doing a stage 1 install of gentoo is not educational at all. In fact, a gentoo developer was just complaining about people like you claiming rediculous things like that on slashdot the other day. If you like gentoo so much, maybe you should stop "pissing off" (his words, not mine) the gentoo developers, and giving the distro you like a bad reputation.

[:wumpus:]

I think everyone made their statement. Repeatedly. Can this thread die now?

[dennis]

This will be my last words on this and I will not read this topic anymore.

I think everyone made their statement. Repeatedly. Can this thread die now?

@wumpus: Liar! ... or did you post that last reply blindly?
But seriously ... the 'best' distro is probably the one you are working with right now. And if you're not it's probably Suse.

[:wumpus:]

Oh shit, you just uncovered my carefully laid out web of lies

[stodge]

nice -n 19 make

Should let foreground tasks have more CPU and resources?

[innovati]

But seriously ... the 'best' distro is probably the one you are working with right now.

Well, at the time of me posting my outline to that (which I thought was quite objective) I was using MandrakeLinux (now mandriva) 10.1 download edition, now I'm using Debian. You do the math.

I believe that this is best for the games and other projects I am doing strongly enough to switch. Not that this is better for anybody else - but the fact that I felt it better enough to leave my compfort zone (URPMI) and switch to a foreign distro should say something about the objectivity of my conclusions.

If anybody is thinking of switching to debian, I reccomend you get Ubuntu or Kubuntu (depending on whether you prefer the Gnome or KDE desktop). I have learned, since installing regular Debian, that these projects get packages faster because they only support 3 architectures (x86, PPc, 64-bit) whereas Debian has to stabalize the packages on 13 different architectures before they can release it (not as fast even thought they have more people working on it). I made a slight mistake, and if I could do it over again I would put Kubuntu on (I prefer KDE to Gnome).

Good luck, and remember that Linux machines need to be kept up to date because so much changes. Would you develop on a linux machine from 4 years ago? Absolutely not!

Why run windows XP then, it's the same vintage

[IoN_PuLse]

Wow, some conflict in here =) My opinion is that pretty much all the distros I've used recently have some neat unique features but they do some things differently, and I believe that is a good thing. Variety is good. Don't like compiling from source? Use a distro that doesn't. Do? Use one that does! They are all quite functional and usable, and with all this variety you're bound to find one that suits your needs. This is something propriety OSs cannot begin to compete with. And in the event you cannot find a distro that you like, you can make your own! =)

[dennis]

Good luck, and remember that Linux machines need to be kept up to date because so much changes. Would you develop on a linux machine from 4 years ago? Absolutely not!

Why run windows XP then, it's the same vintage

Indeed the linux world has made a landslide of changes in the last couple of years while XP is still ... XP (read NT).