Stress-Test

[tau]

When you start being less armed than the government you should be worried. When the government becomes oppressive, it isn't just that you can violently overthrow, but that you have a duty to do so. If we are talking about Germany then that is an example of a people who failed to do their duty.

Gas prices are lower in the US because we pay for a large part of it with taxes. So we do pay pretty much pay the same amount, but the cost is hidden from buyers at the pump. I hate it. We should be paying $5-6 at least. People would totally start pressuring for European/Japanese style smaller cars. Small diesels that get huge mileages are unheard of here and it's stupid.

1) You always will be LESS armed then the government! This noncens always makes me smile.. Common, bud, your 45mm is nothing against automatic rifle or personal armor your government developed using your own money... open you eyes, 45 mm against a tank... Can you buy a tank of your own to defend your personal liberty, so in case when government goes bad you can defend your neighbors from armored guys from DC?

2) People in Germany did not fail to do their duty, they were following another concept. I can say same happen here when we invaded Iraq - we failed to do our duty on one hand AND we were following the concept implanted by Bush administration on the other. same analogy. In a bigger scale, Iraq oil resources keep US economy running, in even bigger scale, the rest of the world hates us for that

3) Gas prices in US are lower because it creates a better automotive market thus more money can be made, the more u drive the more u spend $$$. did you notice, it's all about cars here...

[warmi]

I gather you are not going to vote for McCain ...

Hehehe.

[tau]

so we are just afraid of new changes and afraid to leave our shelves, the world is not the same anymore

We ?

He ... that's all nice and everything but please, speak for yourself only , … otherwise people will think that you are ... you know, one of these clueless presumptuous Americans living in isolation being afraid of change etc ..etc ...

well, I'm exactly the opposite, I'm ready for a change.
when I said "we", I meant "whole country". and as a part of that society, I can say "we", denoting the whole nation.

Warmi, you just gave a good example of why we are so divided and weak.

[warmi]

I want to be a divided nation.

Hell, so called one party states tend not to fare all that well ... so go have at it.

It is called democracy and doesn't mean that the other guy wants you dead ( even if sometimes it seems that way.)

[tau]

I gather you are not going to vote for McCain ...

Hehehe.

Well, I like him personally, but he has a big flaw... He said once "I know nothing about economy but I'm going to continue the path of our President (Bush)", the part about economy turned me down...

This country is already too deep in debt, time to change...

FYI, I'm not a Democrat. I consider myself Independent.

[tau]

I want to be a divided nation.

Hell, so called one party states tend not to fare all that well ... so go have at it.

It is called democracy and doesn't mean that the other guy wants you dead ( even if sometimes it seems that way.)

I did not mean we should be ruled by one party... heck NO!

actually, we were ruled by one party for 8 years

btw, it's my personal joke: "Democracy without Democrats"

Well, when I was talking about how we are so divided, I meant that we keep thinking about ourselves instead of thinking as a mature society, with forward thinking about our common problems, etc.. Health problems a common among all the people regardless their political views, and yet we are so divided in our opinions in this simple matter, missing the fact that Canadian citizens pay 1-2% off their salary for medical coverage (dental+medical+vision with the same quality as in US, trust me, I was there) with strong assurance that they will not be dropped off the medical support, and US citizens pay up to 15%-30% of their paycheck to get a crappy coverage with no assurance of the coverage... and now with Canadian dollar being almost 1:1 with US $....

[warmi]

Well, your problem is that you assume certain things to be facts.

And they aren't.

Like for example this so called "fact" that Canadians get a better health-care - they don't.

Neither do Europeans.

Generally, sure it is cheaper to go to a doctor when you have a cold but if you are seriously sick and facing a potentially terminal illness , your chances of survival are greater in USA than anywhere in the world.

Go check the survival rates for cancers and similar conditions if you don't believe me.

But that’s beyond the point ..

The bottom line is that I don't want to think like a mature society. I don’t want to think like any society …
I just want to think for myself and make my own decisions like a rational adult.

That's all we need - people taking greater care of themselves instead of society, and things will be just fine.

[CaseyB]

The reason people are talking about 2nd Amendment is because they are brainwashed and dont know the real reason for the hand gun allowance. It's all about business, gun manufactures make a lot of money, then they lobby government

Actually the markup on a Firearm is a lot less than, say a car, or a piece of electronic equipment, so your argument were based in fact instead of propaganda Honda and Sony would be running the country!

and have the worst social security situation in the world... we are #1 in number of people in jails,...
why do we spend 68% of budget for military expenses?...
US lagging behind Europe and Japan in cellular phone and high speed internet markets... Got the picture?

Yes, teh government has run Social Security into the ground! People who manage their own retirement, or use a 401K plan fare MUCH better! So why, then, should the government take over health care?! 68% of our expenses go to the military because we think, erroneously, that we need to police the world! We try to stick our hands in every pot we can find and that costs money! I really wish we could either catch up with the Japanese in the technology field or have more freely available imports! I have bought my last three cell phones from over seas and it's getting pricey!

(1)the problem with US citizens is that we have being living in isolation (we dont have international news on our local channels except Iraq),
(2)so we are just afraid of new changes and afraid to leave our shelves, the world is not the same anymore... there is not red block, the soviet union is gone,
(3)time to open ourselves and start solving our own internal problems before we start to "help" other countries that dont need it and dont ask us to do so.... [\quote]
(1) I don't think that we have been living in isolation! The fact that we don't have international news on the tv doesn't keep it off of Google, bbcnews.co.uk, or ap.org, etc!
(2)I agree, we do need change, but I don't think that the changes you suggest are the right ones! I am not the isolated, backward American you describe! I have been out and seen the world, in the last five years I have been to France, England, Switzerland, Russia, Kazakhstan, Czech Republic and the Bahamas (twice, they're lovely!) My girlfriend is FROM the former Soviet Union and her parents are STILL there. I've been there I know what it's like and I'll tell you! If you judge by them, then America is doing something right!
(3)That's what I said in an earlier post! We need to stop trying to play cops on a world stage! It doesn't suit us and we have our own stuff to worry about!

the people who is really afraid of the good regulation are those few with lots of money, their freedom is to cheat on taxes and milk government for high payed projects nobody needs, that's the freedom we are talking about

Again, this is VERY MUCH not me! Though, if I had this kind of money I would be less worried, since I could afford to buy the laws that I wanted!

Heck, people drive with their guns in glove boxes - I was in a road rage once when a guy pulled a gun at me, that very moment I just realized what does "personal freedom" mean in USA...

I drive with mine on my hip! I have never and would never do anything like what that guy did! This is an example of hearing the bad, but not the good (or even indifferent) and thinking that all the people who carry are like that! That man should be arrested and charged with making a death threat, since really that's what he was doing! In my opinion he should lose all privileges to firearms, but he seems like the kind of person that wouldn't let a silly thing like "teh law" stop him!

1) You always will be LESS armed then the government! This noncens always makes me smile.. Common, bud, your 45mm is nothing against automatic rifle or personal armor your government developed using your own money... open you eyes, 45 mm against a tank... Laughing Can you buy a tank of your own to defend your personal liberty, so in case when government goes bad you can defend your neighbors from armored guys from DC?

Read 1776, we were WOEFULLY undermanned and under armed during the revolutionary war and we still managed to win! A man fighting for his home will always find a way to defeat a man who is simply fighting for money!

[CaseyB]

Generally, sure it is cheaper to go to a doctor when you have a cold but if you are seriously sick and facing a potentially terminal illness , your chances of survival are greater in USA than anywhere in the world.

He's right! Also, from another perceptive, I have a friend from France who is a doctor and I can tell you they are terribly underpaid! The best doctors quit because they can make more money doing something else so you end up with two types of people, the ones that don't think they could do anything else and the save the world humanitarians (which he is, really sweet guy!) so you had better hope you end up with a doctor in the latter group or you're pretty much out of luck!

[mr. iknoweverything]

Read 1776, we were WOEFULLY undermanned and under armed during the revolutionary war and we still managed to win! A man fighting for his home will always find a way to defeat a man who is simply fighting for money!

i might have to remind you that the war of independence was a french proxy war. US guys tend to forget that. or underestimate the effect. you know. like vietnam and chinese/russians. or afghanistan and stingers.
you really cant fight wars on love and idealism alone. you need resources.

but please dont fall for my attempt to further derail the discussion

[CaseyB]

i might have to remind you that the war of independence was a french proxy war.

You are going to have to explain that! What did the French have to do with the Revolutionary War.

[johnhpus]

You are going to have to explain that! What did the French have to do with the Revolutionary War.

Just about everything? As far as I can recall without cheating and looking it up, France provided substantial support to the colonies during the Revolutionary War. And helped start it. I don't remember how vital the French were to the win, but they've always enjoyed pissing on England, so I'm sure they did what they could.

Until it became fashionable the for the countries to dislike one another, the French and U.S. had some good times. Remember the Statue of Liberty?

[mr. iknoweverything]

well, i dont have any numbers at hand, but the moment a superpower (at least for that time) enters a struggle for independency, something's telling me it has more to do with that superpower than the rebels in that country.

In case you didnt know: Absolutistic France (you know, the one with the tablecloth flag) supported the American Independence Effort. Quick lookup on wikipedia tells me they even sent 6000 of their very own soldiers.
AFAIR everything looked pretty dim until the french started to trickle in.

[jjp]

i might have to remind you that the war of independence was a french proxy war.

You are going to have to explain that! What did the French have to do with the Revolutionary War.

France financed the US by a large degree and later gave especially naval support which was of course important against the British. In fact the debts France made because of that war were one of the reasons for the French Revolution (the government couldn't pay it's debts and trying to raise taxes did not increase it's popularity ).

[warmi]

France financed the US by a large degree and later gave especially naval support which was of course important against the British.

Ah the French ... they always meddle in everything.