John McCain's VP nominee Sarah Palin

[xavier]

Palin is a far more exciting media personality than McCain and she probably surpasses Obama too.

I would say she's more like a fad, to be honest -- her novelty will wear off rather quickly when her vast stores of inexperience come to light on the national stage.

[weshowe]

You think she will peak like that Obama guy did?

[Zool]

her novelty will wear off rather quickly when her vast stores of inexperience come to light on the national stage.

Those who value experience will vote for McCain, so it's a win-win situation for Republicans.

[syd]

Those who value experience will vote for McCain, so it's a win-win situation for Republicans.

you forget the 8 years of Bush, not so much a win situation...

[Zool]

her novelty will wear off rather quickly when her vast stores of inexperience come to light on the national stage.

Also, how is her inexperience supposed to "come to light on the national stage" ? Do you think the democrat side is ever going to set the focus on that ?

[Zool]

you forget the 8 years of Bush, not so much a win situation...

"8 years of Bush", exactly.
Do you think the country that voted for Bush.. twice, is actually going to vote for a black liberal for president ?

[KevinMulder]

you forget the 8 years of Bush, not so much a win situation...

"8 years of Bush", exactly.
Do you think the country that voted for Bush.. twice, is actually going to vote for a black liberal for president ?

During that 8 years, the ratio of white/!white people changed. Maybe this time the number of !white people outnumber the other ... so they might elect Obama ...

[syd]

you forget the 8 years of Bush, not so much a win situation...

"8 years of Bush", exactly.
Do you think the country that voted for Bush.. twice, is actually going to vote for a black liberal for president ?

they may. If look at all the cards on the board, you can conclude the black liberal has an important chance to be elected. and I don't think Palin was a good bet. As Xavier said, it won't take that long when all that hipe around her go down.

[xavier]

you forget the 8 years of Bush, not so much a win situation...

"8 years of Bush", exactly.
Do you think the country that voted for Bush.. twice, is actually going to vote for a black liberal for president ?

It wasn't so much that they thought Bush was the right person for the job -- it's that the opponent was so clearly the wrong person. Lesser of two evils, in other words, or sticking with the devil you know, that sort of thing.

The 40% of the population that is going to vote for McCain and the 40% that are going to vote for Obama are not who the candidates are trying to woo -- those folks have already made up their minds and might as well cast their mail-in ballot now.

It's the 20% of undecideds that actually determine who is elected in this country, and it's that 20% (a 20% that thinks for themselves and actually evaluates the options objectively) that put Bush in there twice. That 20% is likely to tilt in Obama's favor,

Hell, I'm just happy that (at least until recently) the two major parties put up someone worth voting for this time...only time will tell whether McCain had a senior moment in picking Palin, or whether he was, like I said before, "crazy like a fox".

[warmi]

you forget the 8 years of Bush, not so much a win situation...

"8 years of Bush", exactly.
Do you think the country that voted for Bush.. twice, is actually going to vote for a black liberal for president ?

they may. If look at all the cards on the board, you can conclude the black liberal has an important chance to be elected. and I don't think Palin was a good bet. As Xavier said, it won't take that long when all that hipe around her go down.

Is the fact that Obama is not considered a "fad" choice , related to his race or the fact that he is a liberal?
Because experience-wise his credentials are even less impressive than that of Palin's.

[xavier]

"8 years of Bush", exactly.
Do you think the country that voted for Bush.. twice, is actually going to vote for a black liberal for president ?

they may. If look at all the cards on the board, you can conclude the black liberal has an important chance to be elected. and I don't think Palin was a good bet. As Xavier said, it won't take that long when all that hipe around her go down.

Is the fact that Obama is not considered a "fad" choice , related to his race or the fact that he is a liberal?
Because experience-wise his credentials are even less impressive than that of Palin's.

I think it's more the calm, professional way in which he speaks and conducts himself. His Presidential demeanor, in other words.

In terms of experience, he's had several years on the national stage, and has been exposed to many more foreign policy issues than Palin (whose foreign policy experience count totals zero).

Granted, the only one of the 4 in the race with any executive experience at all is Palin, but I'd feel more comfortable with her as a candidate if she had completed at least one term as governor; a year on the job doesn't exactly qualify her for the second-most important job in the world.

In other words, they all will be learning on the job to an extent, and the more important consideration is who they surround themselves with in office...and whether they listen to those people once there.

[VictorMoran]

I am not so sure if Al Gore or Carry are worst than Bush. And for the record Al Gore did have more than half a million votes than Bush. Hey no one can be worse than Bus, except for McCain.
Reason being, McCain has the same Bush policies plus he is a 72 year old, man with two count of Melanoma and showing symptom of mental lapses.

Today Palin was in Colorado.
She said people in Colorado relate to her because she is moose hunter, and her husband is a snowmobile champion, also he is friend with the captain of the team that won the Stanley cup.
And the because of that the people of Colorado should vote for her.

Mccain in Jacksonville Florida said that the fundamentals the economic are strong and that he was going to fix the market crisis with more de-regulations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4KY39jLdu4
I noticed right away this morning, while he was saying that the DJ when down 350 points.

Then it looks like somebody in the campaign told him , that he made a mistake, but he did not have time to rehearse the answerer, and in Orlando Florida he tried to correct the mistake by making some BS up on the flight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Ps4qCj1Ho

Every economist expert agree that the fundamental of the economic are:
unemployment rate, the national grows, the external dept, budget deficit,
the value of the currency, the inflation index, the wages and interest rate.

Now Carly Fiorina and the other campaign advisers are in disarray trying to spin what McCain said, by inventing alternates economic theories.
They said that fundament al of the economic are the “ingenuity of the American people, ther workers and small businessâ€

[Zool]

It's the 20% of undecideds that actually determine who is elected in this country, and it's that 20% (a 20% that thinks for themselves and actually evaluates the options objectively) that put Bush in there twice. That 20% is likely to tilt in Obama's favor

I think it's more the calm, professional way in which he speaks and conducts himself. His Presidential demeanor, in other words.

In terms of experience, he's had several years on the national stage, and has been exposed to many more foreign policy issues than Palin (whose foreign policy experience count totals zero).

Granted, the only one of the 4 in the race with any executive experience at all is Palin, but I'd feel more comfortable with her as a candidate if she had completed at least one term as governor

Are these the "objective evaluations" that are "likely to tilt [that 20%] in Obama's favor" ? I mean, if this is the case, it's worse that I thought.

[xavier]

Are these the "objective evaluations" that are "likely to tilt [that 20%] in Obama's favor" ? I mean, if this is the case, it's worse that I thought.

It depends on what is important to those individuals.

In my case, the most important quality in the next POTUS is statesmanship, and how the individual would handle our relationships with the rest of the world.

I don't see John McCain being genteel or conciliatory in the least; in fact, I see him continuing the harsh terms on which the Bush admin has dealt with the nations of the world for 8 years (to wit, "FU and if you don't like it, we'll bomb your ass into the Stone Age"). That's not what we need right now.

In terms of their economic and other domestic policies, there's little difference between the two. They can talk all they want about how they will do this or that with taxes, for example, but as I keep trying to get you people to understand, the POTUS does not levy taxes; the Congress does that. They talk about how "they will create jobs", but unless they plan another WPA or expand the federal payroll, that's also not anything the US Govt is in the business of doing. On regulation of business activity, once again, that is under the control of Congress, not the POTUS.

[Zool]

In terms of their economic and other domestic policies, there's little difference between the two. They can talk all they want about how they will do this or that with taxes, for example, but as I keep trying to get you people to understand, the POTUS does not levy taxes; the Congress does that. They talk about how "they will create jobs", but unless they plan another WPA or expand the federal payroll, that's also not anything the US Govt is in the business of doing. On regulation of business activity, once again, that is under the control of Congress, not the POTUS.

So, what was that made Bush "lesser of two evils" against Gore and Kerry, was it "his Presidential demeanor" and "statesmanship" ?

[xavier]

In terms of their economic and other domestic policies, there's little difference between the two. They can talk all they want about how they will do this or that with taxes, for example, but as I keep trying to get you people to understand, the POTUS does not levy taxes; the Congress does that. They talk about how "they will create jobs", but unless they plan another WPA or expand the federal payroll, that's also not anything the US Govt is in the business of doing. On regulation of business activity, once again, that is under the control of Congress, not the POTUS.

So, what was that made Bush "lesser of two evils" against Gore and Kerry, was it "his Presidential demeanor" and "statesmanship" ?

Nope, it was the fact that neither two of them had a clue why they wanted to be President; the first election that bothered just enough people to squeak GWB by, and the second time around, those same people would rather stick with the known evil than letting someone loose on the Oval Office whose only reason for running was "they told me to".

[Zool]

Nope, it was the fact that neither two of them had a clue why they wanted to be President

Yeah, I wouldn't know why I want to be President either, since, apparently, they only thing that "the US Govt is in the business of doing" is invading foreign countries.

letting someone loose on the Oval Office whose only reason for running was "they told me to".

I guess "my dad told me to" is much better.

[warmi]

Nope, it was the fact that neither two of them had a clue why they wanted to be President

Yeah, I wouldn't know why I want to be President either, since, apparently, they only thing that "the US Govt is in the business of doing" is invading foreign countries.
.

Yeah ... I am sure coming soon near you..

[VictorMoran]

The idea that Bush won two elections because democrats do not have an idea why they want to be president, is the equivalent of the Disney world version of The Canterbury Tales.

Let us not forget that Bush was selected president in 2000 by one vote from the Supreme Court in a 5 to 4 decision.
Al gore was projected the winner when the vote count in Florida was less than 100 votes with several black neighbors precincts still to be seated.
Then at 1.00 pm in the morning the Secretary of State of the State of Florida stops the vote count for no apparent reason and declared Bush the winner.

What gives the veil of fraud is that the secretary of state of Florida was Katherine Harris, who was also G. W. Bush's Florida campaign co-chair during previous year.
Guess who was the governor? Jeb Bush the president brother, and among the low ranking election officials certifying precincts: Timothy Griffin and Monica Goodling.
Two people that later because the white house operatives (they called liaison) doing the corrupt and dirty work on the politicization of the justice department.

In 2004 let us not forget about the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The republican are a bag of dirty and corrupt people.
They use their propaganda channels like Fox new, The New York Post and just about 9 out of 10 talk radio stations in the country to deliver their massage of hate and terror.
In 2004 they were running a campaign of terror against the American people.

In the middle for the Democratic Convention they issued the highest level of terrorist alert just to distract people attention from the convention.
They came up with the ridiculous story that HLS had a credible tip that terrorist had a plan to hijack airplanes with empty sandwiches bags and 3.5 onces plastic water bottles.

Expect the same kind of Ad to be start running very soon.

[xavier]

Let us not forget that Bush was selected president in 2000 by one vote from the Supreme Court in a 5 to 4 decision.
Al gore was projected the winner when the vote count in Florida was less than 100 votes with several black neighbors precincts still to be seated.

Let us not forget that numerous independent recounts have all come up with the same result, that Bush won Florida.

Whose living in a Disney version of the Canterbury tales? Someday you people will get over it and move on with your lives; until then, I guess willful denial reigns.

[xavier]

Nope, it was the fact that neither two of them had a clue why they wanted to be President

Yeah, I wouldn't know why I want to be President either, since, apparently, they only thing that "the US Govt is in the business of doing" is invading foreign countries.

letting someone loose on the Oval Office whose only reason for running was "they told me to".

I guess "my dad told me to" is much better.

"Operation Make My Daddy Proud", no doubt about it.

Since your political bent is rather obvious, assuming you are a US citizen (and were then), I'd love to know why you obviously voted for Gore and Kerry. What was it about them that made you say to yourself, "oh yeah, we've *got* to get this guy in office"?

[VictorMoran]

Let us not forget that numerous independent recounts have all come up with the same result, that Bush won Florida.

Independed recount? Give me a break, do you think any sane institution will come out publically and say the election was rigged? That's a business voluntary suicide.

I cannot find the short video but maybe you saw on CSpan the hundreds and hundreds of precinct observers protest black voter disenfranchisement in front of congress.
It is here in the video by the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4inHrrYq ... re=related

Don't you remember the pregnant chad, the Hanging chad, the Two Point Chad and all other kind of nonse.
Doesn’t strike you as a conflict of interest that the team selected to run the election in Florida is handpicked by the Bush brother,
the head of the electoral commission is the head the campaign of his brother, and all of the lower officials are also member the republican campaign?
Many of these low Florida officials are later found be part of a conspiracy to politicize the Justice department by firing US district attorneys who did not prosecuted,
with funny indictments, democratic candidates during the elections of 2004 and 2006.

[xavier]

Let us not forget that numerous independent recounts have all come up with the same result, that Bush won Florida.

Independed recount? Give me a break, do you think any sane institution will come out publically and say the election was rigged? That's a business voluntary suicide.

So you have evidence that any of the independent organizations that counted and re-counted and re-re-counted those votes, ad nauseum, came to any conclusion besides what the election itself determined? That GWB got more votes than Gore? I didn't think so. Vague intimations are much better than hard evidence for delusional demagogues and party-line idealogues such as yourself.

I cannot find the short video but maybe you saw on CSpan the hundreds and hundreds of precinct observers protest black voter disenfranchisement in front of congress.

Yes, and I can go protest anything I want to anyone I want. When did opinion become evidence?

[VictorMoran]

What I like about the ideologist hardliner conservatives is that they make stuff up and when they are call up to explain they start calling, you names.
I guess the pejorative name calling do not apply to moderators.
You know, rarely I come to the forum to read and post, maybe once a month, and now because I am on Vacation, and each time I find you debating and patronizing someone else in the forum.

I was clarifying the rosy picture you painted making it looks like the election in this country is an event that follows the scripts of a high school civics play,
when in fact it is and had always being a very corrupted and dirty business since the republican created the Whig party.

You try to mislead by saying "Yes, and I can go protest anything I want to anyone I want. When did opinion become evidence?" thinking you will get a laugh, but is just happen that, that is not true.
The protest in congress was not by ordinary citizens, it was carries out by the member of congress representing their disenfranchised districts.

You come here to tell the people a bunch of fallacies, like the president do not have any power and
that the people voted for Bush because the democrats did not know how to be president, when it is documented that in the 2000 elections Al Gore had over 500,000 votes more than Bush.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... tion,_2000
It is a hard facts the Katherine Harris stopped the vote count, that she was Bush’s Campaign Manager, and that Bush was selected by one Supreme Court vote in a 5 to 4 decision.

[xavier]

What I like about the ideologist hardliner conservatives is that they make stuff up and when they are call up to explain they start calling, you names.

Who's done that here except you?

Again, you simply ignore all of the evidence to the contrary that I am anything BUT a hardline idealogue, in either direction.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand that. Can you even see the center from that far left?