John McCain's VP nominee Sarah Palin

[reptor]

Well, I have my doubts that there is a real reason to use the term "redneck" so much, even though I have not been there.

I am 100 % sure that the similar type of people live in my country as well, but there is no need for us to separate them from the rest of the population with some term such as "redneck".

Sure, you can find examples from our language which fit perfectly to that purpose, but the fact that I don't hear them used is quite significant. My point here is to question why Americans use such a term so much while we do not.

To that, you answer that I don't understand "because I haven't been there and haven't seen it". It is an obvious answer. I think the answer can't be so simple.

[xavier]

The impression I get from Europeans in general is that the "redneckedness" (to coin a phrase) is much less prevalent there.

And bear in mind that any derogatory connotation perceived by use of the word "redneck" is in the eye of the beholder.

[johnhpus]

No it is way beyond that. You are not even willing to give them the courtesy of having an independent opinion.
As soon as you assert that they don't know what's good for them ( which what "They may not know it themselves" essentially is) , it becomes completely pointless.

I disagree. For me to say that they don't know what their internal motivations really are is not remotely the same as saying that they don't know what's good for them.

I do however, also, believe that most of the people in this area do not know what's good for them. It comes back to critical thinking. They hear one side of an argument presented in an opinionated way and they adopt whatever they've heard.

BTW. What’s up with so many progressives trying to define some sort of intellectual ghetto by associating people’s ability to employ critical thinking with news channels they tend to watch ?

BRAND NAME network news is all bullshit. I'd estimate that CNN and the gang are around %50-60 percent bullshit. But Fox News is just beyond that pale. I believe that no one with any intelligence, knowledge and an open mind could stand to watch it for long. And I won't even start on the volcano of BS that Limbaugh and Hannity provide...

[warmi]

Warmi:

Why do you instantly assume that someone who disagrees with you is "progressive"? Are you sure that word means what you think it means?

I would not qualify myself as progressive...but neither would I describe myself as conservative. You seem to forget that many people *do* have the ability to think and observe for themselves, based on their life experiences, and come to conclusions on their own, without being led by the nose by the media.

No, calling someone “a progressiveâ€

[johnhpus]

On the topic of redneck being a polite word... I don't think it was really very nice before Jeff Foxworthy became popular, but he made the concept funny and these "redneck" people are, by and large, happy to describe themselves as such.

I think it gives them a sense of identity and an excuse for not caring about the shittier elements of their personalities and environment.

And redneck can't begin to be compared to the word nigger. Shame on you. The word nigger carries a terrible legacy of oppression and torture.

[warmi]

And redneck can't begin to be compared to the word nigger. Shame on you. The word nigger carries a terrible legacy of oppression and torture.

Well, I think a large group of (especially young ) black males would certainly disagree with you.

"redneck" people are, by and large, happy to describe themselves as such.

Hmm... see the above.

[KungFooMasta]

And redneck can't begin to be compared to the word nigger. Shame on you. The word nigger carries a terrible legacy of oppression and torture.

It may not be the same, but the term "Redneck" is actually very insulting and derogatory. Jeff Foxworthy made it humorous, but in the end he is still making fun of 'stupid' people. I think he actually made the term worse, as it became more popular and applied to more people, basically stupid people who live in rural areas.

[xavier]

[quote="warmi"]

No, calling someone “a progressiveâ€

[xavier]

It may not be the same, but the term "Redneck" is actually very insulting and derogatory.

So far the only people who have chimed in on this side of this side issue, are those who probably do not consider themselves rednecks.

I could be wrong, but these same folks probably also are not Native American, and yet would consider the use of the term "Indian" to be insulting and derogatory. Isn't it presumptuous in itself to tell someone how they should feel about application of one label or another?

Obviously we have differing definitions of this word, and some impart upon it more derogatory sense than it deserves (for no reason other than they don't like the word, from what I can tell). I'm not going to stop using it because it perfectly describes a particular set of belief systems and character and behavioral traits in a large segment of the American population.

Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies

[warmi]

[quote="xavier"][quote="warmi"]

No, calling someone “a progressiveâ€

[xavier]

- it doesn't imply anything about people's ability to think for themselves at all ( something that cannot be said about the term "redneck")

I also challenge you to point out where I stated that the one implies the other.

You did.
How would you explain the following sentence other than a direct reference to my use of the term.

You seem to forget that many people *do* have the ability to think and observe for themselves, based on their life experiences, and come to conclusions on their own, without being led by the nose by the media

In any case, it had nothing to do with what I wrote, in fact, you should have directed it at johnhpus ... he was the one implying direct correlation between being a redneck and watching certain news channels.

And yet, your statements are in a post that quoted only me?


I had asked you to point out where I implied "redneck" == "cannot think for themselves". I hadn't. My subsequent statement bears that out.

I really don't know what you're trying to prove here, because you're not making a lot of sense.

Back on topic, please...

[warmi]

I also challenge you to point out where I stated that the one implies the other.

You did.
How would you explain the following sentence other than a direct reference to my use of the term.

You seem to forget that many people *do* have the ability to think and observe for themselves, based on their life experiences, and come to conclusions on their own, without being led by the nose by the media

In any case, it had nothing to do with what I wrote, in fact, you should have directed it at johnhpus ... he was the one implying direct correlation between being a redneck and watching certain news channels.

And yet, your statements are in a post that quoted only me?


I had asked you to point out where I implied "redneck" == "cannot think for themselves". I hadn't. My subsequent statement bears that out.

I really don't know what you're trying to prove here, because you're not making a lot of sense.

Back on topic, please...

You know what .. this is getting nowhere but for completeness ...there you go ..

Of course, I could be totally off base -- America is a country full of rednecks, and the Palin shenanigans may turn out to be a huge selling point in November. "Hey, she's just like us!" *shrug*

[xavier]

Of course, I could be totally off base -- America is a country full of rednecks, and the Palin shenanigans may turn out to be a huge selling point in November. "Hey, she's just like us!" *shrug*

Not sure what you're trying to demonstrate -- I fail to see where that equates to "rednecks can't think for themselves". I made that statement to concede that maybe the GOP is crazy...but like a fox, and that the circumstances surrounding the Republican VP selection, while leaving most of us scratching our heads, might be calculated out to those ends.

[KungFooMasta]

Did anybody watch Palin speak last night? I wish I could have seen Biden's speech to compare, but she is good. She really stomped on the Obama camp, and her points were valid too. I recommend finding and watching her speech. She is definately not a "Redneck", in any sense of the term.

[warmi]

She is definately not a "Redneck", in any sense of the term.

She is an elegant , well-educated and eloquent woman... if that's what rednecks aspire to then I don't think things are as bad as johnhpus portrays them

[haffax]

She really stomped on the Obama camp, and her points were valid too.

She made points? I only saw it on youtube, but I really wondered where the beef is.
Sure, same can be said about Obama's speech, didn't watch Biden though.

[xavier]

By all objective accounts, she accurately delivered the speech written for her by the RNC, dutifully attacking the Democratic nominee (who she probably had never heard of until this year).

She did wax sarcastic more than anyone else who's taken the stage in the past two weeks. It's doubtful that the campaign will let her speak publicly again before Nov 4th, outside of very controlled environments.

I found it not surprising that the Obama camp decided to lay low after the Republican VP announcement; after all, if your opponent is busy self-destructing, why get in their way? I'm sure that the Obama campaign must have thought Christmas came early this year...

It's also amusing watching the Republicans whip themselves into a frenzy of spin trying to find a good face to paint on this debacle...their best hope is for a Dan Quayle moment, where everyone forgets about her by November.

[KungFooMasta]

@haffax:

Are you serious?

From http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/04/ ... php?page=1:

We've all heard his dramatic speeches before devoted followers.

And there is much to like and admire about our opponent.

But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform - not even in the state senate.

This is a man who can give an entire speech about the wars America is fighting, and never use the word "victory" except when he's talking about his own campaign. But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed ... when the roar of the crowd fades away ... when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot - what exactly is our opponent's plan? What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger ... take more of your money ... give you more orders from Washington ... and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world. America needs more energy ... our opponent is against producing it.

Victory in Iraq is finally in sight ... he wants to forfeit.

Terrorist states are seeking nuclear weapons without delay ... he wants to meet them without preconditions.

Al Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America ... he's worried that someone won't read them their rights? Government is too big ... he wants to grow it.

Congress spends too much ... he promises more.

Taxes are too high ... he wants to raise them. His tax increases are the fine print in his economic plan, and let me be specific.

The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes ... raise payroll taxes ... raise investment income taxes ... raise the death tax ... raise business taxes ... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars. My sister Heather and her husband have just built a service station that's now opened for business - like millions of others who run small businesses.

How are they going to be any better off if taxes go up? Or maybe you're trying to keep your job at a plant in Michigan or Ohio ... or create jobs with clean coal from Pennsylvania or West Virginia ... or keep a small farm in the family right here in Minnesota.

How are you going to be better off if our opponent adds a massive tax burden to the American economy? Here's how I look at the choice Americans face in this election.

In politics, there are some candidates who use change to promote their careers.

And then there are those, like John McCain, who use their careers to promote change.

She painted a pretty accurate picture. I'm not a Palin fanboy, but I've kept up with the elections enough to know the basis for all she said is valid.

[xavier]

She painted a pretty accurate picture. I'm not a Palin fanboy, but I've kept up with the elections enough to know the basis for all she said is valid.

She paints a pretty subjective picture, with just enough distortion of the facts and vague hints and accusations to make the faithful swoon in the aisles. Same as every politician throughout history, including Barack Obama and John McCain.

[FrameFever]

She is definately not a "Redneck", in any sense of the term.

She is an elegant , well-educated and eloquent woman... if that's what rednecks aspire to then I don't think things are as bad as johnhpus portrays them

your are a republican, right?

[warmi]

She is definately not a "Redneck", in any sense of the term.

She is an elegant , well-educated and eloquent woman... if that's what rednecks aspire to then I don't think things are as bad as johnhpus portrays them

your are a republican, right?

Why would you care ?

It has nothing to do with her or my party affiliation, she is either well-educated and can express herself ( unlike Bush) or she cannot ...

[warmi]

By all objective accounts, she accurately delivered the speech written for her by the RNC, dutifully attacking the Democratic nominee (who she probably had never heard of until this year).

She did wax sarcastic more than anyone else who's taken the stage in the past two weeks. It's doubtful that the campaign will let her speak publicly again before Nov 4th, outside of very controlled environments.

I found it not surprising that the Obama camp decided to lay low after the Republican VP announcement; after all, if your opponent is busy self-destructing, why get in their way? I'm sure that the Obama campaign must have thought Christmas came early this year...

It's also amusing watching the Republicans whip themselves into a frenzy of spin trying to find a good face to paint on this debacle...their best hope is for a Dan Quayle moment, where everyone forgets about her by November.

You must be living in some alternate reality ... because even the very people she runs against, admit she is a new force to reckon with.
I am sure they would much prefer to run against another tired old white guy …

Could she self-destroy ? Sure ... I guess it is possible, but the chances of this happening are about the same as they are for Obama.

[xavier]

You must be living in some alternate reality ... because even the very people she runs against, admit she is a new force to reckon with.

You can't be as naive as you sound here. What else do you think Obama and Biden are going to say? You don't give the opponent material to post on the locker room bulletin board, to borrow a phrase from sports. Surely you know this?

[haffax]

She painted a pretty accurate picture. I'm not a Palin fanboy, but I've kept up with the elections enough to know the basis for all she said is valid.

You have to clue me in then, because I didn't here anything about it at all. Evak already mentioned all the idle spending Obama is going to do once he is president, but his quotes where without source. The Obama campaign site only mentions one, taking back Bush's lasdt tax cut. And everything else is "pay as you go". It is not a matter whether I believe him or not. No grounds for that. But I certainly don't believe her without her providing grounds for that believe. Maybe there are some quotes dating back to the 80ies, don't know. But so far I've not heard of anything recent.
So I fail to see how she paints an "accurate picture" of anything.
Only funny thing as that "there are some candidates who use change to promote their careers" is reminding me more of her than any other one. ^^

Her assessment of Iran is idiotic, to put it mildly even. Of course you'd have to speak with them without preconditions. I don't get what's so difficult to get it. The alternative is to not speaking at all, unless you are willing to hear Iran's preconditions, which I doubt.
Not doing it is keeping a conflict open on purpose. You never know when you might need one I guess....

The Al Qaeda remark is stupid too. Even hideous, when you think about gitmo, but maybe that's why "the rednecks" will love her.

[reptor]

I saw her speech almost completely I think.

She is a good speaker. But what did she really say? A lot of time was used for in my opinion totally irrelevant talk.

I don't like the way the politicians start to attack each other by, in my opinion, talking about things which are irrelevant for if the person is a good candidate or not.

Example, when they try to make people afraid of Barack Hussein Obama because of his name. That's just crazy. In my eyes using that kind of strategy already is a very good sign that the person (or political party) who uses that kind of strategy should not be voted. Should not be trusted the keys to your nuclear weapons, or the keys to the military.

See GWB and Iraq, you gave him the keys and see where did it take you, now more people in the World hate USA than ever before (my estimate but I think it is true). More hate in my opinion increases the risk of terrorist attacks and not vice versa. And then the republican party talks about a victory in Iraq. I just can't see how a victory can be achieved there, the USA lost that war when they decided to start it.

I just hope warmongerers don't win your elections this time. For your own sake.

Some of Palin's statements are very alarming. Today I read an article which says that she has talked of the war in Iraq as a "crusade" type of thing. That it is a God-given mission.

And that a gaspipe which has been planned to Alaska is "God's will".

I hope there are enough people in the USA who are not buying into that bullshit.


I have made my mind, if I were a citizen of the U.S., I definitely would not vote for this kind of person.