The meaning of life

[nikki]

Hmm... Now reading what I just typed, it seems it made no sense.

That's life.

Guess it made sense after all then.

[Walley]

It makes sense - those natural tendencies we are each born with, our own individual preferences for happiness. It's interesting to ponder them. Personally I think there's a reason behind it, but you can also go with random genetics if you want.

This line of thought also raises something else of interest (to me anyway). Let's assume that the multi-verse theory is correct, or that on some level things will continue infinitely - other universes, or perhaps this one repeating itself somehow - whatever. Even in a scientific materialist world view where awareness is considered a product of the brain (in fact, more so in this world view) - if you have infinity, then eventually it can be expected that the combination which created your awareness may re-arise - and hence so too will you, in the sense of awareness (though you will not have the memory of who you are now) - for all you/we know, you've already existed as awareness before (on the basis of a world view seeing awareness as a physical phenomenon) . This line of thought doesn't really get us anywhere, but it's interesting (to me anyway).

[sivael]

Well... it might take us somewhere... hadron collider, anyone? xD

[towcar]

Well I think Monty Python pretty much explains it all.

Haha Anyway

Well maybe there is no meaning of life, just to wander?!?

Well if that's true then that means on the first day god mades the heavens and the earth...

If there is a meaning, then wouldn't it be on the first day God drew out some blueprints and made some coffee for a long night of designing EVERYTHING since tomorow was going to be a big day on the job, lol



edit: Also Yeah the hadron Collider... also called the particle accelorater and the big bang machine and the dooms day device.
Of course the dooms day theory is very mythical and there is a slim possibility.
Yeah I can't wait to see what happens with that more.

[DanielSefton]

This is the conclusion I came up with in a presentation I did when I was 14:

We may never know the answer to the meaning of life. The more we try to develop an answer, the less likely it is that we will ever be able to answer it. The meaning of life is, and will always remain as belief, not as fact. My question is - How can any of our theories be answered when we have nothing to determine against as to whether they are right or wrong? As usual, this question has brought up more questions than answers, it’s the way philosophy is and always will be. Therefore, you could say that these questions are becoming increasingly difficult to explain over time, because there is more that exists to answer.

It may seem strange that I was contemplating it at such a young age... I wasn't depressed or emo-tional, honestly. I've just always been a deep thinker.

[nikki]

It may seem strange that I was contemplating it at such a young age... I wasn't depressed or emo-tional, honestly. I've just always been a deep thinker.

"such a young age"

Bah! 14 is old.

[ajs15822]

Life, as it is with art, is not meant to have an explicit meaning-- it is up to you to find out what life means for you.

[Walley]

This is the conclusion I came up with in a presentation I did when I was 14:

We may never know the answer to the meaning of life. The more we try to develop an answer, the less likely it is that we will ever be able to answer it. The meaning of life is, and will always remain as belief, not as fact. My question is - How can any of our theories be answered when we have nothing to determine against as to whether they are right or wrong? As usual, this question has brought up more questions than answers, it’s the way philosophy is and always will be. Therefore, you could say that these questions are becoming increasingly difficult to explain over time, because there is more that exists to answer.

It may seem strange that I was contemplating it at such a young age... I wasn't depressed or emo-tional, honestly. I've just always been a deep thinker.

This is a good point. One of the frustrating (in a sense) fronts I have come to terms with in life is how little we actually know - even about the things we directly sense. For example, you or I could just be a brain in a bottle - what we experience through our senses doesn't tell us much about the nature of where it's coming from (just like what you see on your screen when playing a game doesn't tell you much about the code).

In the end... all one truly knows is that they exist, and the direct nature (qualia) of that which they're experiencing (the experience of what we've named red for example). And of course, these are very different from the common notion of what knowledge is. We generally think of knowledge as a collection of concepts we have deemed to be factual (or even just a collection of concepts) - and yet true knowledge is not this - it is direct and undeniable. It is undeniable to oneself that one exists, for it is self-evident, and it is undeniable to one that they are having an experience right now, for that is undeniable too.

In terms of life meaning... in the end I have a hope that it is possible to experience the true nature of things in such a direct and undeniable sense (in the end nothing else would truly satisfy me, for as you point out - it is only ever belief, even if high in probability). The experiences of mystics and the like (the high end experiences - where the mind is transcended (I clarify this because many of the low end 'mystical experiences' are very subjective, if they even deserve to be in the category - such as experiencing the feeling of a 'presence')) allude to such a possibility - so I'm somewhat determined in my own life to seek out such experiences and see if they settle the question for me. Based on what I know (know = think in this case) of them, it seems a possibility - but one cannot know without the experience. And... if they turn out to all be subjective, or I fail to experience them... well I guess I'll be disappointed and disheartened, but oh well - least I'll have tried .

*EDIT*
As a final thought (related to the above post), it is true that, in the ultimate sense life cannot logically (so far as I can rationalise anyway) have a meaning in the sense of a goal to strive for. Obviously at the core of existence must be some absolute 'just is' - something which exists in of itself. Of course, I'm thinking of it in terms of the laws we experience here (time (or more aptly, change), cause-effect, etc), whereas it would imaginably be a case of simply not having those laws - perhaps having no laws at all, or whatever - who knows - but obviously it exists.

Anyway... even if that thing was akin to what might be called 'God', 'God' could have no meaning - if God were infinite, and could do and experience anything - and had infinity to do so - then there would be no goal to strive for, because everything is already there. Actually, in the realms of infinity, a goal doesn't make any sense anyway. If there is some kind of 'God', the only mentality (though projected - and I don't like projecting human qualities onto such things - that's where mr angry judgemental God comes from - but bare with me!) I can ponder that might somehow make any sense is perhaps a sense of joy in experiencing and expressing. For example - an artists loves to create art, many of us here love to create games - why? When you really track it down - we just do - there is no reason that we know of, we were just born with the quality. Perhaps there is something akin at a higher level, if there is something 'God'like. Although, one could also put this across as something without the 'God' qualities (awareness, intelligence, consciousness, whatever), but keep the other quality - the natural inclination to just 'do' whatever.

That raises the other doosy of a question - why does anything exist at all, and why did the core absolute 'whatever it is' 'express' itself as this universe, and us (at least in part, considering this universe may not be the totality of existence)?

[towcar]

You can spend your whole life searching, but does it really matter.
I guess that's what religion is for, so when people need an answer they can turn to religion to guide them. Which is probably the only thing keeping everything together, for this long.

[DanielSefton]

As for my belief system:

The universe is an extremely advanced computer simulation. Scientists had devised a 'perfect formula' for triggering life itself. i.e. a set of very specialised "rules". A software developer (God) put it into practice by creating software that would process these algorithms. Of course, by then the computers were of monolithic proportions. When the simulation was started, the rules began to affect each other in perfect harmony, resulting in 'the big bang'. We are part of the simulation, and the developer continues to watch over us even today. In the future, we will also be capable of devising this formula -- everything we currently know is a piece of the jigsaw (atoms, gravity, electromagnetic force, weak/strong force, hadrons, leptons, photons, nuclear energy etc.), and scientists will eventually find out that it all fits together. The cycle continues. Life's a game.

[Walley]

You can spend your whole life searching, but does it really matter.
I guess that's what religion is for, so when people need an answer they can turn to religion to guide them. Which is probably the only thing keeping everything together, for this long.

The question of whether there is something to find is an open one - if there is something to find, then it matters, and of course if not, it doesn't. Personally (and this one depends largely on individual nature and tendencies - 'seeking truth' is one of mine - so this is merely what works for me, not what I'd prescribe to others ) to follow that quest on the chance that it has a fulfilment is the worth it.

Personally I think religion is the anti-thesis of this - religion encourages the cessation of seeking. Besides, in the aforementioned context of wanting to directly know, religion does not deliver sadly.

[Halifax]

Heh, this is a pretty good topic. Really I don't have a complete grasp on how I even define the meaning of life. I have thought about it, among other things, which simply can't even be thought about.

At any rate, one has to find out what makes a person a person. How could you transplant a person from body to body. Meaning, how could I/you be transferred from my/your body into another, and expect to retain our decision making, our knowledge, and what makes us ourselves.

I don't think anyone has found that, and thus it is loosely defined as 'soul'. Now I specifically remember that a test was done to find the 'soul'. And the scientists found that when you die, after the excretion of your bowls, there are exactly 21 grams that are lost in every person they tested. Could this be the disconnection of 'soul' from the body. I think so.

Now given that, I either believe that after death we move on, meaning life never ends. I don't believe that your 'life' continues on the Earth anymore, but I also do not believe in a heaven either. Many say that reincarnation occurs, but I find that highly unbelieveable. Reincarnation would mean that your 'soul' is erased, or else we would remember our past lives, in my opinion.

Honestly, I think that the Earth, and human living, is the first life. But that's just me. I think the question to "what is the purpose of life?" will be answered by death. That's actually why I don't fear death, but rather look forward to what awaits.

[Kojack]

Now I specifically remember that a test was done to find the 'soul'. And the scientists found that when you die, after the excretion of your bowls, there are exactly 21 grams that are lost in every person they tested. Could this be the disconnection of 'soul' from the body. I think so.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

Only 6 people were tested. 2 tests were invalid, and only 1 person lost 21.3 grams. The other 4 had different amounts, including one who lost some weight, gained it back again, then lost it for a second time.
A bed that sensitive to weight would have shown changes for the slightest body movement.

I'd like to see the experiment repeated with modern technology under suitable scientific conditions before believing the claims of a dog murderer (he killed dogs to weigh them at death too) from 1911.

[Klaim]

You better bet on quantum physics to explain mind kind of things. Nobody really understand

[syedhs]

You better bet on quantum physics to explain mind kind of things. Nobody really understand

My physics teacher once said, "If you think you have understood Quantum Physics, then you dont know it enough." And I remember him talking about a theory saying that you cant measure things accurately as simply measuring it add noise to it - something like that. Strangely, although I know nuts about Quantum Physics (or is it Mechanics) I kinda agree with him.

Well back to meaning of life, unless if you have your own holy scripture dictate just that, the search of meaning of life shouldn't be thought of as goal-oriented effort, but rather you should just enjoy the energies/time/knowledge spent while searching for it. And you had better be damned sure that you will never ever find it using just your own limited thinking + empirical evidence.

And what is far more important is to just have something which can give you the reason to awake in the morning with full of energy. And I would love to quote Martin Luther King Jr something related, "If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. ".

[SpannerMan]

"Living" organisms have a primary goal programmed into them - survival for the sake of propagation. We live to breed, and with humans and many animals a secondary goal dictates that we protect our offspring.

So life isn’t about us, it’s about DNA. Our species and many others like it are like walking hard drive bays, because the main role of DNA molecules is the long-term storage of information. We live to protect, pass on and combine our genetic information, eternally.

We are guards and vessels to DNA, constantly evolving to fulfil our primary objective more efficiently. We all know that this is all there is to it, but we continue to seek a deeper meaning; a fuller justification for our existence. So we invent religion and philosophy and other dimensions. And that’s fine; that is part of being human, otherwise we would all go mad. And that wouldn’t be very advantageous to our DNA masters, would it?

[steven]

So we invent religion and philosophy and other dimensions. And that’s fine; that is part of being human, otherwise we would all go mad

Why would you go mad without religion or philosophy?

We have only one life and there is nothing after that.
Where is the problem with that?

[SpannerMan]

I am using these as examples of things that people turn to for reasoning and answers. I imagine that the majority of the world’s populace have found or are seeking something to believe in, a reason or something to lead them. You suddenly take that away from them, and you've got a big problem.

Just because you happen to have come to terms with what you believe to be true, doesn't mean everybody else has or will.

Anyway its all bollox anyway and my DNA is telling me its sleepy time.

[Halifax]

We are guards and vessels to DNA, constantly evolving to fulfil our primary objective more efficiently. We all know that this is all there is to it, but we continue to seek a deeper meaning; a fuller justification for our existence.

So then wouldn't the question be, "Why are we protecting this DNA?" Would that not be the "deeper" understanding to our existence. Maybe your right...maybe people are looking in the wrong places.

The thing that boggles my mind, and literally makes it hurt. (It isn't even possible the process.) What would there be if no big-bang happened? There is no definition for lack of color. And according to quantum physics, time did have a t=0 moment.

[steven]

Spanerman I agree with what you say.
Let me rephrase my question:

Why have people no purpose in life or are so afraid of death that they need to take refuge/comfort in religion?
What is needed to make people more... hum... philosophical about their life?

[syedhs]

We have only one life and there is nothing after that.
Where is the problem with that?

Well the problem is how certain you are of that - it could be too late if you realize it after your death (or it could be nothing there really)

[nikki]

[offtopic]
syedhs: No! Don't change your avatar! Samurai Jaaaaaccckkk...
[/offtopic]

[reptor]

I remember asking in a lunch table "What if we go very very far in the space, what will we find?" Then I continued: "The human mind is incapable of understanding what the universe is, we are sort of inside a box and we are not able to understand the box if we are inside it".

That it is not possible for us to understand what this place is and further, the space, because we are prisoners of it. We can understand small bits but to get the complete picture is impossible for us.

To that a religious person answered that "The explanation is God" or something like that.

So, when my take on it was that human beings are not capable of understanding (even though many think they are), the religious person basically just said that we will have to rely on God on things we do not understand.

I have no problem if other people do that, it is just not for me. I would like to have some other explanation to things than "God created it, and you shouldn't try to understand it, just trust God." or something similar to that.

[sivael]

A belief that there's nothing after death is also a belief. It's the same(from the philosophical point of view) as believing there's God, and the same as believing that we all come from Gaia.

People need to believe in something - either it's money, the science, God, other people or anything else. They just need to believe.

@Steven - That means that You believe in Your theory just like others believe there's God and afterlife. And since nobody came back to tell us about it(some believe in ghost stories... mostly induced by their own minds) we can *believe* that there's nothing there. Yet we have no proof.

I personally choose to believe Bible - it's quite a remarkable book. The only place where God isn't human, where God is bigger, better and outside of our bonds(the universe, time, etc...) Where under careful examination and honest analysis I've found no errors. Prophecies have been proven to come true(and there are copies of the biblical prophecies that are older than the historical facts they talk about.)

And evolutionists have made their theory true in the public eyes without any proof. I prefer a book that has been true from the beginning 'till the end to the guys who say "it happened. We just don't know how":P

@reptor - biblical God doesn't discourage curiosity or the will to discover and understand His universe - He even wants us to do it because it can show us how great He is... at least the biblical God is that way.
[!!] I can't really talk for all the "christians" since they are as diverse as all the "muslims" etc... so I'm just talking about those honestly seeking God that's described by the Bible:P

[haffax]

A belief that there's nothing after death is also a belief. It's the same(from the philosophical point of view) as believing there's God, and the same as believing that we all come from Gaia.

Not really. The absence of a belief is not the same as a belief.
If I don't believe in proposition A, then this doesn't mean that I believe in the negation of proposition A.
I don't belief in a life after death, because there is no compelling evidence whatsoever for this belief. The teapot argument basically.

And evolutionists have made their theory true in the public eyes without any proof.

Whatever this "proof"is. If you mean evidence, then there is compelling evidence for the current theory. It is only that some people chose to close their eyes on it. Here is a very good guide to what evidence made biologists develop the theory of evolution: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
Read it! If you have questions, ask them, even via PM.