blender vs 3dmax

[Rixeh]

Err you mean blender didn't have transform widgets before?

If so, then all I can say is ROFFOFOFLOLOLOALMAOHDHFDKLALMAO

There are reasons why Max, Maya, and XSI are considered the highend packages of choice for game dev studios, film, etc....

[makeshiftwings]

The main thing is that if more than one program does this, but one gives you more freedom (feature-wise, money-wise, time-wise, legally....) you have to count the costs. One thing about most open-source software is that it is usually free-as-in-beer as well as being free-as-in-freedom. This still may not be enough savings to persuade you to use it, but for most of us, money does count, and we are willing to put up with a lot to save a buck! (sure says something about western society eh?)

However, when working in a company or managing a company where people get paid by the hour, or just in a universal sense of realizing that time is money, saving the cost of buying an application only to have to write your own (which takes a lot of time) or deal with the hassle of an inferior free version (which takes a lot of time) can still cost you money.

As for your reference to FUD not being a viable weapon against open-source, I have a link for you: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsservers ... fault.mspx

You think all of that is just blatant lies? A lot of it is true. Linux often DOES end up costing a lot more, because hiring Linux gurus is far more expensive than hiring MS gurus. It could be that this is because MS software is easier to set up and diagnose, or it could just be that not enough people use Linux. But it's a fact that it usually costs much more to hire full-time Linux system administrators and get tech support than it is with MS products.

As for my application, I did state I needed an organic modelling program, not Zbrush. Can I not make an organic modelling program without being a Zbrush clone? etc., rant, etc.

No actually you said, and I quote it for the second time:

Excuse me for being so blunt, but if I need an organic modelling program (which I do), instead of buying Zbrush (which I can't afford), and instead of pirating it (which is illegal and unethical) I must create the tool with the help of other like-minded individuals in the comunity (which I am).

Your words pretty clearly say that ZBrush does what you want, but you're making your own because you can't afford it and don't want to pirate it. If, as you're saying now, what you meant was that ZBrush doesn't at all do what you want and you're embarking on some new frontier, then that's all well, but don't act like I'm making things up.

Also, the goal of Linux was not to give teens a free OS, but that is certainly one the of side-effects. Do you know what the goal of Linux really was? Had you known, I doubt you would have brought it up.

Was it so that teenagers don't have to pay for Windows? No; that's all I was saying.

And for the "thousands of eyes looking at the source code" thing....it's enough to make any developper sick. That sounds like a scam, it's impossible that every project has more than 1000 programmers

Not a thousand developers on one project; I mean that with open source, everyone can look at the source, and find security vulnerabilities faster, which is a better solution than "security through obscurity", as MS often does.

By tried do you mean whine? The whole Blender interface is foreign to me, I learned using 3DS Max's interface and still can't quite grasp Blender's yet, but is it not easily scriptable in python? Different blender plugins have their own interfaces, so theoretically it shouldn't be to hard to make an interface plugin and continually update it with each new release.

Yes, I do mean whine, as I stated in the post above. That's all it amounts to when a developer refuses to listen to your suggestions. That's their right of course, but why should I use a product that refuses to do what I and many others want it to do? Also, Blender's UI is definitely not EASILY scriptable in python. I'm pretty sure the low level stuff is completely off limits, but if it's not, then it's damnably hard to do.

Now, I think you need to stop ranting at me. I'm not anti-open-source; I kindof doubt anyone using Ogre is. But as a counter-argument to your "FUD", I think you and a lot of open source advocates suffer from "MAP" - Misguided Antiestablishment Propaganda. You need to choose a side: either capitalism as a whole is bad and needs to be stopped, in which case you should be spending more time on the streets protesting and less time supporting LGPL software (which almost entirely exists to allow GPL'd software to be used commercially), or you accept that capitalism is going to be around for most of our lifetime and that software could not survive if every programmer was forced to work for free, and that that never was the goal of open source, and that if capitalism is accepted, then commercial software must have a place as well. Calling people names and hurling insults at people that use commercial software, telling them that they only like what they like because they are sheep being mind-controlled by The Man, is not going to help your cause.

In summary, I feel absolutely no "duty" to rewrite Blender and make it into something I'd want to use. Why should I feel any sense of duty to a product I don't like? I feel that it would be better for the "open source community" to only support products that are actually good, rather than feel the need to defend every poorly written piece of tripe out there just because the programmers are "down with the cause". It's the only way open source software will remain viable. I feel no shame in saying that if Ogre was as bad as CrystalSpace, I'd have dumped it just as fast as I did then. The reason I still use Ogre and continue to support it when I can is because it is good software AND open source, not just because it's open source. Blender's alright; it's not the worst thing in the world, but until they make some really big changes, it's not for me.

[:wumpus:]

*gets popcorn*

fight fight fight !!!

What's the use of comparing blender to 3dsmax anyway? in the process ignoring all other modelling programs that lie between. Even if you go commercial there are cheaper and better(depending on your opinion) alternatives to 3ds. And there are alternatives to blender that are also free.

A 'blender versus 3ds' choice doesn't happen a lot in practice I'm sure.. see the folly in comparing the cheapest and most expensive product?

It has also been a while since the last real reasons have been given. Everything that was to be said has been said. Now you guys are repeating yourself.

Now this has amounted to the holy war between 'embrace the big guys' and 'embrace the little guys' and IMO this is enough.

There is no use in trying to convince 'the other side' while they are entrenched. If you want to show how good your modeller is, make some fantastic models, put them in Ogre demos and help populare the showcase forum and screenshots section

[Whitebear]

Sometimes it is very useful to return to the origin of the war. It began from the simple question:

How many of you claiming to use 3dmax actually have a valid license ?

IMHO it's time to put an end to the war and maybe lock the topic!

[temas]

And so it shall be... PM me if you hate me for locking it, that way I can have the pleasure of deleting that note