VisualStudio 2011 preview

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Mind Calamity
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

Kojack wrote:
I don't get what Microsoft is trying to achieve by adding even more eye-candy to Windows, it's obscuring the usability
That's why I always use Windows Classic theme (been using it since Windows NT 4 beta). Simple, minimal and clean interface, no glitzy crap.
(If Win8 doesn't have classic theme, I'm going to be very annoyed)

I was going to install win 8, but got distracted playing Hard Reset and researching laptops. :)
(Everyone should buy Hard Reset. Awesome old school cyberpunk shooter by ex devs of Painkiller and The Witcher)
Yupp, Windows Classic is completely gone, at least in the preview.

I see here that:
Microsoft has reportedly removed the option to enable the Classic Start Menu on purpose in order to get developers to use the new UI for developing their future apps for Windows 8. Chances are, Microsoft will include said option when Windows 8 releases sometime in 2012.
But, with that handy app, that person has made, it seems that you can get a bit closer to Windows 7, at the very least.

I got used to the Windows 7 taskbar, so I don't particularly hate it.

I get bad vibes from Windows 8, and the way Microsoft continues to do things...

That Hard Reset game, it looks really awesome :D
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betajaen
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by betajaen »

You guys are type of people who complained about the Microsoft Ribbon in Office ;)
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Kojack »

You guys are type of people who complained about the Microsoft Ribbon in Office
And still do, because it sucks.

Image
Just look at that! What a waste of space.
It's inconsistent, some icons are big, some are small. Some are arranged horizontally, some vertically.
Do we really need a button for renaming a file? We can already press F2, or left click in the file name, or right click and select Rename.


The first things I do in a new install of win 7 are:
- set classic theme
- unlock taskbar and drag it to double row
- unpin everything (pinning is a mess)
- remove grouping
- set icons to small
- add back in the quick launch toolbar, set to 4x2 (with the first 8 icons being vs2008, vs2010, firefox, thunderbird, paint.net, feed demon, search everything and winamp)
- turn back on file extensions and disable system file hiding
- set all desktops to solid black

One of my co-workers (quite a bit younger than me) saw me using win 7 in classic mode, and asked what it was, because he'd never seen it before. That was rather depressing.
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Mind Calamity
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

betajaen wrote:You guys are type of people who complained about the Microsoft Ribbon in Office ;)
I'm the type of person who has never used Ribbon outside of MS Paint ;)
Kojack wrote:
You guys are type of people who complained about the Microsoft Ribbon in Office
And still do, because it sucks.

Image
Just look at that! What a waste of space.
It's inconsistent, some icons are big, some are small. Some are arranged horizontally, some vertically.
Do we really need a button for renaming a file? We can already press F2, or left click in the file name, or right click and select Rename.


The first things I do in a new install of win 7 are:
- set classic theme
- unlock taskbar and drag it to double row
- unpin everything (pinning is a mess)
- remove grouping
- set icons to small
- add back in the quick launch toolbar, set to 4x2 (with the first 8 icons being vs2008, vs2010, firefox, thunderbird, paint.net, feed demon, search everything and winamp)
- turn back on file extensions and disable system file hiding
- set all desktops to solid black

One of my co-workers (quite a bit younger than me) saw me using win 7 in classic mode, and asked what it was, because he'd never seen it before. That was rather depressing.
This.
One of my co-workers (quite a bit younger than me) saw me using win 7 in classic mode, and asked what it was, because he'd never seen it before. That was rather depressing.
This really made me laugh, not matter how young a person he may be it's blasphemy to be using a computer, and not know what Windows Classic looks like (Unless you've been living in a cave, and using Linux for all your life, but even then, there are some minimal themes for Linux, that look a lot like Windows Classic) :D
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by betajaen »

I like it, then again my "Explorer" looks like this;

Image

But you have to realise (which you probably have), that they have to design it to the lowest common denominator. Your average housewife, or business guy in a suit doesn't know about the F2 key or hold LMB down to rename, it's easier to just use the button on the screen. Personally, I would prefer the button myself.

As for the ribbon. It's fine; the most common tools/tasks have big icons in organised places, whilst the less used tasks take up less space therefore can't be clicked by accident.

Thing is I'm not going to argue, and I would ask you not to post a response there is no need. You have a black desktop background, which is why your set in your ways - Just like I am with mine.

Question though; Can you turn it off? In Microsoft Word, you can sort of make it like the toolbar again - but not quite. Is it the same in Explorer? Or can you get it so it looks and behaves in Windows 7?
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

betajaen wrote:I like it, then again my "Explorer" looks like this;

Image

But you have to realise (which you probably have), that they have to design it to the lowest common denominator. Your average housewife, or business guy in a suit doesn't know about the F2 key or hold LMB down to rename, it's easier to just use the button on the screen. Personally, I would prefer the button myself.

As for the ribbon. It's fine; the most common tools/tasks have big icons in organised places, whilst the less used tasks take up less space therefore can't be clicked by accident.

Thing is I'm not going to argue, and I would ask you not to post a response there is no need. You have a black desktop background, which is why your set in your ways - Just like I am with mine.

Question though; Can you turn it off? In Microsoft Word, you can sort of make it like the toolbar again - but not quite. Is it the same in Explorer? Or can you get it so it looks and behaves in Windows 7?
Whatever that is, it sure isn't MS Explorer, at least I have never seen it that way. (So, what is it ? It looks a lot like WinRAR :D )

Also, your point about the the average busyness guy or housewife is valid, and your question will probably remain unanswered until 2012 (or whenever Microsoft feels ready to release Windows 8 ).
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Klaim »

Just look at that! What a waste of space.
I think that you miss the point of the Ribbon. The idea is to get near to the ideal of design for everyone, not only for technical people.
In fact, it match almost all the best practices in UI design. Why?

Think about most of the people using computers. They are not programers, they are not power-users. They don't understand things with just words, they need both images and text to understand and remember everything. They don't care about how much place it takes in the page because it's what they want to do that have to be immediately obvious, not the content, it's the last step.
In fact you can read more about it in "Don't Make Me Think". Also, AFAIK Microsoft make informed decisions by gathering tons of informations from real use and tests.

The ribbon helps most of people, not the power users. Power users have inertia in their habits, that can only be reduced by learning new habits often.

I agree that it's a strange choice but I take my own habits inertia in consideration and if I take the point of view of, for example, my mother that don't understand anything to even IPhone interface, I think that will help a lot.
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

Klaim wrote:
Just look at that! What a waste of space.
I think that you miss the point of the Ribbon. The idea is to get near to the ideal of design for everyone, not only for technical people.
In fact, it match almost all the best practices in UI design. Why?

Think about most of the people using computers. They are not programers, they are not power-users. They don't understand things with just words, they need both images and text to understand and remember everything. They don't care about how much place it takes in the page because it's what they want to do that have to be immediately obvious, not the content, it's the last step.
In fact you can read more about it in "Don't Make Me Think". Also, AFAIK Microsoft make informed decisions by gathering tons of informations from real use and tests.

The ribbon helps most of people, not the power users. Power users have inertia in their habits, that can only be reduced by learning new habits often.

I agree that it's a strange choice but I take my own habits inertia in consideration and if I take the point of view of, for example, my mother that don't understand anything to even IPhone interface, I think that will help a lot.
IMHO, those people should be kept as far away from anything electronic as possible.

Were the previous versions of Windows meant for power users ? Power users usually go for Linux, there, they (we) can have their (our) creativity unleashed, and make the desktop they (we) imagine.

The "Don't Make Me Think" philosophy is getting really popular lately, I see that Ubuntu, as a human-friendly Linux distro, is beginning to catch up to Microsoft on that.

It's the same as going to the store and buy stuff without the need to look at the prices, or the product's name. (I am exaggerating a bit)

You said that most of the people who use a computer don't understand stuff with just words, I take it you mean that their IQ is equal to a kindergarten student ?
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by _tommo_ »

Mind Calamity wrote:It's the same as going to the store and buy stuff without the need to look at the prices, or the product's name. (I am exaggerating a bit)
It's the same as when I go to the store to buy a new household tool, and guess what? The less I have to learn about it, the more I like it.
You have to deal with the fact that a computer a tool to its users, a tool that should be completely transparent.

So I can see why the ribbon, it just removes responsibilities from the designers as they don't enforce any use model: "hey, I really wonder which is the most important, Open or Move button" - "just slap both in and let them figure!"
So it is a bit of everything as it is easy to use first but painful to master.
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Kojack »

I think that you miss the point of the Ribbon. The idea is to get near to the ideal of design for everyone, not only for technical people.
The problem is when technical people can't change the setting to make it the way they prefer. I don't mind a ribbon interface if there's an option to get rid of it.
Thing is I'm not going to argue, and I would ask you not to post a response there is no need. You have a black desktop background, which is why your set in your ways - Just like I am with mine.
I'll respond anyway. :)
Umm, I'm set in my ways because I have a black desktop?

I give every new windows interface a go. I ran vista with aero, xp with that blue theme it came with, etc. I would stick with any of them if I found them better. It's not just because windows classic looks a bit like amiga workbench 2.0. :)


Back on topic...

Here's a visual comparison of default vs2010 and vs2011 (2011 is on the bottom):
Image
There's a few things which stand out. First, more colour coding. Classes, enums and macros are all detected, and parameters are shown in italics. Second, the solution explorer now has expansion buttons on every file. Expanding a file shows a hierarchy of preprocessor symbols, namespaces, classes and methods contained in the file.
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by betajaen »

Mind Calamity wrote:
betajaen wrote:I like it, then again my "Explorer" looks like this;

Image
Whatever that is, it sure isn't MS Explorer, at least I have never seen it that way. (So, what is it ? It looks a lot like WinRAR :D )

Also, your point about the the average busyness guy or housewife is valid, and your question will probably remain unanswered until 2012 (or whenever Microsoft feels ready to release Windows 8 ).
Winrar - please ;)

It's called Directory Opus, which I've been using in some form or another since 1995. First on the Amiga, then onto Windows.

I'm using the default settings at the moment, but you can customise the pants off it.
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Kojack »

The first modem I bought (14.4k) was from Greg Perry, creator of Directory Opus. :)

If you want the ultimate in file management, you need ZTreeWin, the win32 remake of XTreeGold. :)
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by betajaen »

Er, no. ;)

I like Directory Opus because it replaces Windows Explorer fully, and I can use the "Lister" in any way I feel fit; Dual Horiziontal/Vertical Pane, Flat View, with View pane, etc, and of the wonderful tools and options it has. I used to spend hours on the Amiga configuring it how exactly how I wanted it. Now only if it had a Ribbon option for my toolbars.....:D
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

_tommo_ wrote:
Mind Calamity wrote:It's the same as going to the store and buy stuff without the need to look at the prices, or the product's name. (I am exaggerating a bit)
It's the same as when I go to the store to buy a new household tool, and guess what? The less I have to learn about it, the more I like it.
You have to deal with the fact that a computer a tool to its users, a tool that should be completely transparent.

So I can see why the ribbon, it just removes responsibilities from the designers as they don't enforce any use model: "hey, I really wonder which is the most important, Open or Move button" - "just slap both in and let them figure!"
So it is a bit of everything as it is easy to use first but painful to master.
Household tools are different from Operating Systems, let me put it this way for example - the person in question (the one with low IQ) goes to buy a car, and let's just say that they are rich, and buy the most expensive car they can get their hands on, then the person decides to travel somewhere far away, they drive, and drive, and they get miles away from their starting point, and notice that they forgot to take a map.
They took a lot of corners, and curves, which makes them unable to remember the exact way they came to the point where they currently are, now, remember when I said an expensive car ? Those cars have GPS, and a whole lot of other stuff that the person in question would never even think about figuring out how to use some of the stuff/tools they have available, like for example, a GPS navigational system, or the map on their phone (since they're rich, they must have at least an iPhone ;) ), see what I mean ?

I just realized how far off-topic what I just wrote would take us, but oh well... :D
So I can see why the ribbon, it just removes responsibilities from the designers as they don't enforce any use model: "hey, I really wonder which is the most important, Open or Move button" - "just slap both in and let them figure!"
So it is a bit of everything as it is easy to use first but painful to master.
I'd say the designers that came up with the idea to put ~200px of buttons on top of explorers are incompetent, and should be demoted to chefs, because that way, they can chicken, or whatever, with whatever they can imagine. (as long as they keep it edible) :D
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

@Kojack (or anyone who has compiled OGRE 1.8 with VS11):

I seem to be getting linker errors from FreeImage.lib (I compiled the dependencies, and changed OIS 1.2 to 1.3), here's what I'm getting:

Code: Select all

1>FreeImage.lib(Plugin.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(FreeImage.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(BitmapAccess.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(MemoryIO.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PixelAccess.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(Conversion8.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(Conversion24.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(Conversion32.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(FreeImageIO.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginRAW.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginPICT.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginPFM.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginJP2.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginJ2K.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginEXR.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginSGI.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginG3.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginHDR.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginGIF.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginDDS.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginXPM.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginXBM.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginCUT.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginPSD.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginWBMP.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginTIFF.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginTARGA.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginRAS.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginPNG.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginPCX.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginPCD.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginPNM.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginIFF.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginKOALA.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginMNG.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginJPEG.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginICO.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PluginBMP.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(FreeImageTag.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(TagLib.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(GetType.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(J2KHelper.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(IexBaseExc.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(half.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfIO.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfRgbaFile.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(IexThrowErrnoExc.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfOutputFile.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfFrameBuffer.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(Flip.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfChannelList.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfHeader.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfInputFile.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ColorLookup.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(PSDParser.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(XTIFF.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(IPTC.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(TIFFLogLuv.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(Exif.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ClassicRotate.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfRgbaYca.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStandardAttributes.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfChromaticities.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(IlmThreadPool.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfMisc.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfCompressor.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfBoxAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfCompressionAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfFloatAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfLineOrderAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfPreviewImage.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfPreviewImageAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfTileDescriptionAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfVecAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfDoubleAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfEnvmapAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfIntAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfKeyCode.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfKeyCodeAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfRationalAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfTimeCode.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfTimeCodeAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfChromaticitiesAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfMatrixAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStringAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfOpaqueAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfChannelListAttribute.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfScanLineInputFile.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfTiledInputFile.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(FIRational.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(IlmThread.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfConvert.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfB44Compressor.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfPxr24Compressor.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfPizCompressor.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfZipCompressor.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfRleCompressor.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfTileOffsets.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfTiledMisc.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfHuf.obj) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for '_MSC_VER': value '1600' doesn't match value '1700' in OgreAlignedAllocator.obj
1>     Creating library D:/Libraries/ogrevs11/lib/Release/OgreMain.lib and object D:/Libraries/ogrevs11/lib/Release/OgreMain.exp
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : warning LNK4217: locally defined symbol ?_Getcat@?$codecvt@DDH@std@@SAIPAPBVfacet@locale@2@PBV42@@Z (public: static unsigned int __cdecl std::codecvt<char,char,int>::_Getcat(class std::locale::facet const * *,class std::locale const *)) imported in function "class std::codecvt<char,char,int> const & __cdecl std::use_facet<class std::codecvt<char,char,int> >(class std::locale const &)" (??$use_facet@V?$codecvt@DDH@std@@@std@@YAABV?$codecvt@DDH@0@ABVlocale@0@@Z)
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : warning LNK4049: locally defined symbol ?id@?$codecvt@DDH@std@@2V0locale@2@A (public: static class std::locale::id std::codecvt<char,char,int>::id) imported
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : warning LNK4217: locally defined symbol ?in@?$codecvt@DDH@std@@QBEHAAHPBD1AAPBDPAD3AAPAD@Z (public: int __thiscall std::codecvt<char,char,int>::in(int &,char const *,char const *,char const * &,char *,char *,char * &)const ) imported in function "protected: virtual int __thiscall std::basic_filebuf<char,struct std::char_traits<char> >::uflow(void)" (?uflow@?$basic_filebuf@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@@std@@MAEHXZ)
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : warning LNK4217: locally defined symbol ?unshift@?$codecvt@DDH@std@@QBEHAAHPAD1AAPAD@Z (public: int __thiscall std::codecvt<char,char,int>::unshift(int &,char *,char *,char * &)const ) imported in function "protected: bool __thiscall std::basic_filebuf<char,struct std::char_traits<char> >::_Endwrite(void)" (?_Endwrite@?$basic_filebuf@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@@std@@IAE_NXZ)
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : warning LNK4217: locally defined symbol ?out@?$codecvt@DDH@std@@QBEHAAHPBD1AAPBDPAD3AAPAD@Z (public: int __thiscall std::codecvt<char,char,int>::out(int &,char const *,char const *,char const * &,char *,char *,char * &)const ) imported in function "protected: virtual int __thiscall std::basic_filebuf<char,struct std::char_traits<char> >::overflow(int)" (?overflow@?$basic_filebuf@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@@std@@MAEHH@Z)
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "private: static void __cdecl std::locale::facet::_Facet_Register(class std::locale::facet *)" (?_Facet_Register@facet@locale@std@@CAXPAV123@@Z) referenced in function "public: void __thiscall std::locale::facet::_Register(void)" (?_Register@facet@locale@std@@QAEXXZ)
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "__declspec(dllimport) public: class std::locale::facet * __thiscall std::locale::facet::_Decref(void)" (__imp_?_Decref@facet@locale@std@@QAEPAV123@XZ) referenced in function "public: __thiscall std::locale::~locale(void)" (??1locale@std@@QAE@XZ)
1>FreeImage.lib(ImfStdIO.obj) : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "__declspec(dllimport) public: void __thiscall std::locale::facet::_Incref(void)" (__imp_?_Incref@facet@locale@std@@QAEXXZ) referenced in function "class std::codecvt<char,char,int> const & __cdecl std::use_facet<class std::codecvt<char,char,int> >(class std::locale const &)" (??$use_facet@V?$codecvt@DDH@std@@@std@@YAABV?$codecvt@DDH@0@ABVlocale@0@@Z)
1>D:\Libraries\ogrevs11\bin\Release\OgreMain.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 3 unresolved externals
Any ideas ?
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Klaim
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Klaim »

Kojack, did you try all the search tools they added in this version?


Mind Calamity wrote:IMHO, those people should be kept as far away from anything electronic as possible.
Yeah, those people should migrate on another planet too. :twisted:

I don't see any valid argument in you post, their are in some other's. But that's not the subject so let's continue on VS exploration :)

What I'm interested in is : does intellisense react quickly on an old computer like mine?
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

Klaim wrote:Yeah, those people should migrate on another planet too. :twisted:

I don't see any valid argument in you post, their are in some other's. But that's not the subject so let's continue on VS exploration :)
That wasn't meant to be an argument, that's why it can't be valid, it was just my (twisted :twisted:) opinion! :mrgreen:

Good point on the VS Exploration, though, we've gone too far with the off-topic discussions. :D
What I'm interested in is : does intellisense react quickly on an old computer like mine?
I can't comment on this without knowing your specs, but from what I can see on mine it sure is far better than the previous version, and I'm getting a feeling they learned a thing or two from Visual Assist X, since it's more like it.

Also, it compiles a basic application (generated from jacmoe's wizards) in about 6 seconds.

Code: Select all

1>------ Build started: Project: OgreApp32, Configuration: Release Win32 ------
1>Build started 9/18/2011 3:55:31 AM.
1>InitializeBuildStatus:
1>  Touching "obj\Release\OgreApp32.unsuccessfulbuild".
1>ClCompile:
1>  All outputs are up-to-date.
1>ResourceCompile:
1>  All outputs are up-to-date.
1>Link:
1>  Generating code
1>  Finished generating code
1>  OgreApp32.vcxproj -> D:\Projects\Personal\TestGround\OgreApp32\OgreApp32\bin\Release\OgreApp32.exe
1>PostBuildEvent:
1>  Description: Copying exe to samples bin directory ...
1>          1 file(s) copied.
1>FinalizeBuildStatus:
1>  Deleting file "obj\Release\OgreApp32.unsuccessfulbuild".
1>  Touching "obj\Release\OgreApp32.lastbuildstate".
1>
1>Build succeeded.
1>
1>Time Elapsed 00:00:06.29
========== Build: 1 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========
But, since I couldn't compile OGRE with VS11, I can't test it yet.
Last edited by Mind Calamity on Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Klaim »

By the way, no "refactoring" tools in C++ yet?
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

Klaim wrote:By the way, no "refactoring" tools in C++ yet?
Not as far as I can see, but there are "Surround With", and "Insert Snippet" items added to the context menu, which is an improvement, I hope they add refactoring to the final edition, though.
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Kojack »

Yep, I had that same linker error.
The problem is that you've built the dependencies as vs2010 (_MSC_VER=1600) while ogre itself is vs2011 (_MSC_VER=1700)
When you open the dependencies solution, right click on the solution and do an upgrade.
Other than that, it should compile fine.

I wonder how long it will take for cmake to support it (I don't think they added 2010 until it was fully released).
(Fights the urge to rant about cmake as well, enough off topic stuff here already)


There's pretty much no refactoring for c++. In theory tools like Refactor! should be easier to make because they can use the c++ database instead of parsing the code themselves. But there's nothing built in. Even things from c# like Rename Symbol are missing.

Being able to generate include dependency graphs is cool (I had trouble back in 2010, the options were a bit different), but that's an ultimate feature, so it will cost $12000+ for the final version with that (unless you get it free through work like me). Best to generate graphs now while you can. :)
Ogre really messes with it, we have so many files and they all include each other in fun ways. The graph comes out pretty much unreadable. Looks great for little projects, but for ogremain, not so good.

I tried doing a search in the solution explorer search field. I searched for "node". It found every file with node in the name, as well as every project which included a file with node in the name. I scrolled the list down, then 2011 locked up. 2min later I killed it and reloaded. Hmm.

I did a "View Call Hierarchy" on Entity::_initialise. It said there were no callers. Well, 4 lines above it was a call, so it was a little off there.


I don't know if 2010 was like this (can't be bothered starting it right now), but auto complete and tooltips seem worse than 2008.
I entered:

Code: Select all

Ogre::SceneNode *node;
node->translate(
In 2008, the -> causes an immediate listbox to appear with possible options. In 2011, it takes 4 seconds to appear. Seems to be an intentional delay, maybe it can be turned off.
When the "(" is typed, 2008 pops up a list of prototypes for the translate method. In 2011, only about 4 tries out of 20+ popped up the prototype list, and once it popped up a list of preprocessor symbols.
As you type parameters, 2008 highlights the current one in the prototype list, so you can see what the current parameter should be. Very handy to remember to second parameter to translate is of type Ogre::Node::TransformSpace. In 2011, as soon as you press a key, the prototype line vanishes, leaving no indication as to what parameters are needed. If you hover the mouse over the method name, it won't show the prototype list unless the line of code is complete, 2008 will show the prototype list if the left of the method name is valid code, you don't need to finish the rest of the line.
When it does work, hovering over a method in 2011 results in one prototype, with a "+6 overloads" or whatever underneath, but no way of seeing any of them. In 2008 it pops up a list of every overload so you can see them all.
Hmm, 2011 just decided -> was a spelling error. I had to retype it.

Based on this, just doing simple ogre method calls with parameters I can't remember is already annoying.


I haven't tried doing any real coding in it, but so far:
- colour coding is nice
- auto complete sucks, 2008 is way better
- optimiser is good, I get consistently better frame rates in ogre samples using 2011.
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Mind Calamity »

Yep, I had that same linker error.
The problem is that you've built the dependencies as vs2010 (_MSC_VER=1600) while ogre itself is vs2011 (_MSC_VER=1700)
When you open the dependencies solution, right click on the solution and do an upgrade.
Other than that, it should compile fine.
Damn, I was sure I converted the dependencies prior to compiling... Oh well...

<edit>I did, but CMake referenced the wrong dependencies directory...</edit>
I haven't tried doing any real coding in it, but so far:
- colour coding is nice
- auto complete sucks, 2008 is way better
- optimiser is good, I get consistently better frame rates in ogre samples using 2011.
Auto complete sucks ever since 2010, I guess MS won't fix it ?

But 2011's auto-complete is better than the 2010 one. Visual Assist X FTW.

Also, compiling OGRE with VS11 is a fool-proof task :)

Code: Select all

Character Sample:

VS10:
Worst FPS - 250
Best FPS - 350

VS11:
Worst FPS - 260
Best FPS - 350-360

BSP Sample:

VS10: 
Worst FPS - 277
Best FPS - 390

VS11:
Worst FPS - 291
Best FPS - 390
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Klaim »

I'm asking myself if most of the improvements on FPS were due to STL optimizations...


Also, you guys should watch this session and then try the new features : http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/B ... /TOOL-830T

Because, it seems like some things don't work like we assume, like the immediate intellisense that is not immediate if you're not in a specific mode or something.
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Zonder »

Kojack wrote:The first modem I bought (14.4k) was from Greg Perry, creator of Directory Opus. :)

If you want the ultimate in file management, you need ZTreeWin, the win32 remake of XTreeGold. :)
ah xtreegold that brings back memories :)
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Zonder »

someone mentioned about the iso sizes I havn't checked it but there is a chance they crosslinked the files on the disk so duplicates are only stored once I have seen them do this with win 2003 server discs
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Re: VisualStudio 2011 preview

Post by Zonder »

just seen the new blue screen of death in the new windows :) sorry oft again
BSOD.jpg
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