Ogre Forums

Hi
not easy to find:
http://www.ogre3d.org/addonforums/index.php

Why not merge or put a link?

There is a huge button on top of every forums page right next to the ogre.3dorg and the wiki button!

True, but the upper right corner of a browser window (especially on large screens) is not something you intuitively look at if you want to find a sub forum.
I also think it would be easier just to merge them. Why not make it an own subforum just like the Developer Forums?

There really is no reason the addons should be in their own forum. They belong to Ogre anyway.
And merging them would certainly increase user activity on both sides (well, mostly on the addons side).

We had this discussion many times and some of the main reasons are:
1. The addons are not an official Ogre part
2. Prevent bloated forum with too many sub categories
3. Clean structure: So when you hit "Posts since last visit" you see the Ogre core ones. If you care about addons, you do it in another place. Clean, clear, easy.

And there even is an historical component: The addon that was the trigger for creating that addon forum in the first place (back in 2005) came from a troll-prone community since it originally was related/part of a game development kit, so lots of script kiddies. And the mods feared back then that they might spam around in our main forums which to this very day have a very good and high standard.

I agree to spacegaier, it's better to seperate non-ogre-projects from the main ogre forums. But if you have a look at this forum, you can see topics like http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70759 which are handling problems of external plugins. Maybe it's a good idea to make a forum which is a link to the add-on forum and back.

Transporter wrote:Maybe it's a good idea to make a forum which is a link to the add-on forum and back.

I actually like that idea and while trigger a discussion internally about that proposal.

Yep, some kind of pseudo forum that when clicked redirects to the addons / Ogre forum (depending on where you come from) would work well.
The main problem right now is that the button - although big - is unintuitive to find, as you don't expect links to other forums being in the top-right corner.

spacegaier wrote:We had this discussion many times and some of the main reasons are:
1. The addons are not an official Ogre part

Yeah, but they are using Ogre. As are all projects discussed here. Even more, they are expanding it! Might as well make a different forum for showcases, another one for non-Ogre questions, another one for artists, another one for... You get the idea. None of the listed are an "official part of Ogre". But all of them (+ the Addons) are part of the community. And why split a community that is sofocused on one thing (Ogre) anyway.

spacegaier wrote:2. Prevent bloated forum with too many sub categories

What? Do you mean when visiting the forum, the site would be too big? In that case, don't show the sub-forums of the Addons sub-forum. Problem solved.

spacegaier wrote:3. Clean structure: So when you hit "Posts since last visit" you see the Ogre core ones. If you care about addons, you do it in another place. Clean, clear, easy.

I never once used such a feature since I use forums on the internet. But okay, that may be a vlid argument for all people that do
Or, you know, make a filter for the "Posts since last visit" and default it to "not from addons".

1) IMHO is an ideological mistake. 2) and 3) are technical limitations that can be solved, easily I might add, given that someone would take the time to do so. Which is maybe not the case. So that "fake" forum-link workaround will have to do and already vastly improve navigation.

TheSHEEEP wrote:

spacegaier wrote:3. Clean structure: So when you hit "Posts since last visit" you see the Ogre core ones. If you care about addons, you do it in another place. Clean, clear, easy.

I never once used such a feature since I use forums on the internet. But okay, that may be a vlid argument for all people that do

Are you kidding me? That is my single-most feature used across any forum I visit. Manually stepping into each forum subsection to quickly check for interesting threads would take for ages!

Yes, that function is useful. But When you look at the main forum and the addon forum there are not so many posters. If you look at the addons the development is not very active. And there are also addons on development which are provided in the main forum (eg http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60773).

Transporter wrote:And there are also addons on development which are provided in the main forum (eg http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60773).

Which in fact should be in the addons forum, so that it is better structured. All the maintainer has to do is contact the team and we will most likely grant a new subsection.

spacegaier wrote:Are you kidding me? That is my single-most feature used across any forum I visit. ...

IMO "Posts since last visit" is one of the worst forum misfeatures ever. It's less of an issue here, but in other forums I visit it is a root cause of off-topic posting. Could be one of the reasons why there's a huge overlap between Help, Using OGRE in Practice and General Discussion.

Addons would be better served as sub-forums of the main forum. Last I checked (certainly not recent), the moderation over there is sub-par with a large number of spam posts unexcised. Why should a project developer request an Addon forum when he can plog freely in the Showcase forum and not have to worry about forum admin?

Definitely with Spacegaier with this one.

If it was merged, there would be so much bloat, and confusion with the 'off content' posts. It would also be a pain in the neck to moderate (since we would have to make the moderators in those forums - moderators here, and since we moderator all the forums, there would be a lot of stepping on toes and policy disagreements), and of course since the user accounts are separate, possibly duplicate or incorrect accounts. I mean how can you prove that the betajaen in the addons in the same betajaen in this one, without checking the email address or contacting them personally?

I don't like the idea of pretend forums either. For it to work correctly, you'd have to have up to date information about the the number of posts, last posted user, dates, etc. for each fake forum that mirrors the real one. I imagine there is a script that does it, but you'd have to maintain it between upgrades, possibly modify it yourself. It isn't worth it in IMHO.

On a personal note, I think they fine as they are. They are separate for a reason, because they are not part of the Ogre source code base. We are just kind enough to give them a support forum because we think that they are good enough to warrant some sort official support and approval.



p.s. Posts since last visit. Is the best feature of phpBB. I'm too lazy to check each forum by hand. So it's a very useful tool. And considering these forums don't get any spam any more (spam that you guys never see), it's a non-issue.

betajaen wrote: I don't like the idea of pretend forums either. For it to work correctly, you'd have to have up to date information about the the number of posts, last posted user, dates, etc. for each fake forum that mirrors the real one. I imagine there is a script that does it, but you'd have to maintain it between upgrades, possibly modify it yourself. It isn't worth it in IMHO..

Nonono, the idea is that it is merely a link in disguise, like the "Addons Forum" in the upper right corner, but instead it appears below all the sub-forums in the main forum. Misunderstanding here, I guess
Just like it is now. Man, that change was fast


Btw... the link doesn't work. It just says that you are not authorized to view the forum. It should link to "http://www.ogre3d.org/addonforums/", if I got it right.

TheSHEEEP wrote: Just like it is now. Man, that change was fast

We are a vibrant and fast-paced community . Basically our motto is: Impossible things get tackled right away, miracles take a tidbit longer .

TheSHEEEP wrote:Btw... the link doesn't work. It just says that you are not authorized to view the forum. It should link to "http://www.ogre3d.org/addonforums/", if I got it right.

Yes, that is where it is linking to and right now I have no idea why it is asking for login credentials. Will ask jacmoe, our forum wizard.

spacegaier wrote:We are a vibrant and fast-paced community . Basically our motto is: Impossible things get tackled right away, miracles take a tidbit longer .

And nothing less is expected of you!

spacegaier wrote:Yes, that is where it is linking to and right now I have no idea why it is asking for login credentials. Will ask jacmoe, our forum wizard.

Now it works.
Another miracle!

Uhm, I just noticed there is the working link to the addons forum.
But in the addons forum, there is no link back (except the upper-right one, of course)

Just wanted to drop a note in here to say that I've been lurking around these forums for quite some time and I've never, ever, known about the Addons Forum. I think because the buttons up the top at first glance are your typical forum buttons, and having an entire other forum just doesn't make sense to me.

spacegaier wrote:

Transporter wrote:Maybe it's a good idea to make a forum which is a link to the add-on forum and back.

I actually like that idea and while trigger a discussion internally about that proposal.

I like to reactivate this topic with a new proposal. It would be nice to have an other "link forum" called "Bugs" below the development forum which is linked to the bug tracker.

Just in case, nobody noticed yet. I created that link already a while ago. So I can remove this thread from my todo list .