Source codes for Shadows: Heretic Kingdoms?

[slnecnica]

Hi,

we consider releasing complete Ogre3D source codes for Shadows: Heretic Kingdoms as we are reworking the entire game into the new technology and we had to abandon the existing source base. We still would like to contribute to Ogre Community though and it would be pity to leave all our work gone useless.

Therefore I was wondering if there would be an interest for such thing as source codes and if so - would you be willing to pay for it? It is not going to cost much - rather very symbolic figure especially considering the amount of work we spent for the game, something around price of a new better game, or collector's edition of some games.

Source codes would include:
- Scene Editor
- Animation Editor
- Particle Editor
- Addtional editors, featuring Grass, Water, Wrecks, Sky, Lightning,
- LUA scripting system
- Complete C++ source codes to compile your own Shadows version
- Complete art assets in Ogre format (no source files for the assets)
Editor has even support for export into iOS format. There are further countless functionalities - groups, layers, ragdoll, freezing, trajectory movements, etc

I am not saying it is the best editor on the world, but it may be one of the best and most universal for Ogre

We actually developed more games on it, though the only one worthy mentioning and really completed to release date is Shadows.

It can be used for your own projects, whether commercial or non-commercials, fast prototyping with existing assets or to mod existing Shadows...

Sharing your thoughts would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

For more details about the game itself check here:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/256030

[EricB]

Have you ever thought about crowed funding the Opensource release? Something like IndieGoGo campaign with a minimum reserve to FOSS the engine would bring 1) extra PR to your project, 2) Bulk funds from your existing unused code, and 3) Would result in a FOSS release which would help the community and improve PR.

I'm considering doing something similar with GearCity a couple of years after we release from Early Access.


Is your sequel still using Ogre3d? Or did you move to an entirely different rendering solution/engine?

[frostbyte]

some more info is needed...
assets editor only? custom format assets? features list? architecture? docs? support? license?
advantage over other editors( ogitor, pu etc ) or other production pipelines( blender, 3dmax etc.. )?

speaking for myself, i find a bit of misfit between "Abandoned" and "getting paid" for it
afaik, if its paid for than its a commercial-project, nowadays developers have some high standards, not sure if people would want to pay for abandonWare but maybe for some devs it can save some pain
anyhow i don't think you'll see real profit from this so you might just as well skip the small-fee part...
BronzeHead suggestion make sense, it would also be xtra cool of you, if some of this money would be Donated back for the development of OGRE
otherwise,i think that for maximum joy and profit maybe you should target Heretic Kingdoms modders community
or do both( free editor source for ogre users, paid Heretic Kingdoms source and assets for modders )
Cheers (-:

[slnecnica]

Hi,

thanks for sharing your opinions. I understand your points, it makes sense.

I have uploaded a short video from the editor at
https://youtu.be/vS2nnf3qUQc

It shows a fraction of the existing functionality in the editor.

In fact the editor is already unoficially available from Shadows; description how to access it is in the forums:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/256030/discussions/3/
But we will make it official.

Perhaps we can make the tools available for free; assets for a fee as you have suggested.

I would be willing to release the sources to the tools completely for free as well; but I am a bit unsure if this can be separated from the game itself. Perhaps splitting the fee for source codes and assets could help too?

Once again thanks for sharing you opinions, it is much appreciated...

[slnecnica]

Ah, I forgot to respond about new game. Sequel is not using Ogre3D, we had to abandon Ogre for now for the production reasons.

[Zonder]

It's defiantly a nice idea and charging a fee is fine but that does make it commercial. You would need to offer a support forum I think at a minimum.

Maybe starting a crowd funding campaign for your new project might be an idea? and offering source code from Shadows: Heretic Kingdoms as rewards etc. Just to throw a different idea in

I really must start this game again, started it pc broke forgot where I was up to

[slnecnica]

Hi all,

thanks for your contributions and ideas; we appreciate it.

You are obviously right in many aspects, thanks.

Overall, based on your feedbacks and discussions with some other friends I think we will proceed as follows:
- C++ source codes to existing engine, tools, editors will be released for free to Ogre community and Shadows players as DLC to current Shadows.
- assets for Shadows (arts, levels, characters, etc) will be available for price as separated DLC

As for crowdfunding campaign - yes, we have considered it. The issue with crowdfunding campaign is that it needs quite a lot of time to prepare well and for a small thing like source codes it wouldn't make sense. For the next game we can consider it; but I fear that the current audience is not sufficient to justify crowdfunding, especially after all the negative buzz generated by our publisher bitComposer when they filed for bankruptcy and failed to meet the promises to the players. We have to improve the reputation in the first place and we can consider crowdfunding afterwards; perhaps for a title after the next one.

Let me know your thoughts on this one...

Thanks again for your contributions and thoughts, very helpful!

[Herb]

@sinecnica - Thank you for moving forward with this. It'll be a great benefit for the community to see and leverage both the engine and editor toolset. Makes perfect sense to add assets at a cost. Looking forward to checking out the code!

[frostbyte]

sounds AWSOME!!!

i know it's a MASSIVE amount of work to develop a proper "inHouse" editors( more than the game? ), so thanks... it's an awsome contribution
at least round here your reputation will always be indisputable (-:

i'm sure lots of people are waiting to play with the editor and code...some questions for now...
DLC? will i need to have a steam account or own a copy of Shadows in order to download the editor?
will you release it as an open-source license or is it free as in "free beer"?
my thoughts...
"free beer" is good for Artist to build and manage game assets but somewhat worthless for coders...
Gpl -may attract some contribution from game developers since its a useful project for Artists
but it may also reject contributions( lots of coders including me think it worse than commercial license and would'nt touch it with a 10 feet poll )
lgpl - much better...but still... its a code name for "the developer wishes to stay in control over the project"
MIT- best!!!
Cheers^2 (-:

[slnecnica]

Hey all,

thanks a lot for your thoughts.

I have to admit that I have not really evaluated which license should be appropriate for this kind of release and I am not well versed in the differences between the licenses. My only concerns is that release of our codes does not violate other open source libraries we are embedding in the codes (theora and perhaps some others)... We need to do some more research on this though as during the time some of the licensing conditions may have changed already... I wouldn't have any problem doing it under MIT, I just need to verify this doesn't violate other licenses. Any help on this would be much appreciated...

To download source codes DLC you will need to have an account/game on Steam - we don't have any own distribution system to use and we still consider it as part of Shadows per se. Our primary goal is to hope that at some point someone will make some mods for Shadows for which he obviously should have the game

I have no pink glasses though, I am quite sure the sources will be available very shortly for free somewhere on the internet. So we can only kindly ask people who will use the source codes to buy Shadows...

Cheers guys!

[Zonder]

I am sure the community will help out on the licensing best just listing all the libraries you are using and how they are linked.

[frostbyte]

oh man, my messages keeps getting deleted before i can send...so i'll make this one shorter( spend half an hour on the prev... )
ARRR....GREEEAAAATTT......mit....mit...mit....

you should use the original license for the dependencies( attached to their respective names ) and just give your own code a license( make that clear on the ReadME )

should not worry about code getting to GitHUB, you should do it yourself have some control and enjoy the publicity( prevention is better than cure.. )
its not that every day open-source community gets to put its clows into a game+editor of this high standarts.
if done right than publicity can be worth much more than 20$*few ogre community members
you can put the source on GitHUB/SF/Bitbucket with your profile( company name, logo, link to website etc... )
you can name the project with reference to the original game( e.g ShadowsMod or whatever.... )
you can put on the projects WIKI/"Shadows editor menus" instructions/link on how to download paid Shadows assets
besides Shadows modders, some other devs may also want to use it as sample assets( pretty good value for money... )
you can add a tax free payPal donate button
who knows maybe you can find a maintainer so your project can continue to evolve

make some buzz and waves( twitter, reddit, game dev sites etc... )...no need to run a full-on campaign...might be worth the small effort
wish you all the best...
CheerZZZZZZZ (-:

Edit: http://www.partycity.com/product/party+ ... Set=279661

[slnecnica]

Heya,

I will get the list of the libraries we use and put it here

Thanks for a LOT of GREAT ideas, it completely makes sense, thank you for your help here, it is shaping pretty nicely!

Cheers and waves,

[salival]

@sinecnica - I'm very glad to see you care for the ogre community, It will be a big benefit for the community for sure.