John McCain's VP nominee Sarah Palin

[haffax]

There has been little talk about Obama's VP nominee so far here. Probably because there is little to say, as it has been one of the three most expected people.

Though situation is very different in GOP's case. At least in German's press Palin was never named as a possible option beforehand.

From the description I get in the blogs/press I read, she is the opposite of McCain. While McCain is measured as more liberal in civil rights questions, Salin is pictured as more of a hardliner in this regard.

So, for US people, does VP nominee choice change your vote? If yes why, if not, why not?

Pharyngula sure is a more liberally aligned blog but I don't like her answers at all. See here for the complete questionnaire.

[betajaen]

I would prefer it to be Michael Palin though; he could implement a Ministry of Silly Walks and spread US culture on his many travels.


Seriously though; From what I've heard from British News, McCain barely knows her, so how many have thought it's for the Hillary crowd or Hot Woman as VP vote?

[reptor]

Is her family from North Europe? Scandinavia, Fenno-Scandia?

The name sounds like it could be.

There are many Palins in Finland.

[warmi]

I would prefer it to be Michael Palin though; he could implement a Ministry of Silly Walks and spread US culture on his many travels.


Seriously though; From what I've heard from British News, McCain barely knows her, so how many have thought it's for the Hillary crowd or Hot Woman as VP vote?

Heh, he is not marrying her... she is supposed to be his professional partner in the world of politics ... so is it really that surprising that he was guided by political considerations when choosing his mate ?

PS.
She has English, Irish, and German ancestry - btw. Palin is not her maiden name.

[xavier]

It was a carefully calculated political move. It is clear the GOP wanted someone to appeal to the hardline right wing, as well as appeal to the disaffected Clinton voters. Woman? Check. Anti-abortion? Check. Anti-gay-marriage? Check.

The problem is that you don't pick a VP candidate by resume any more than you hire a job candidate solely by resume. And even on that basis of resume...they just gave away the main argument they had about Obama -- depth of experience in government.

This all may end up backfiring badly -- she is already becoming an embarrassment to the ticket IMO, and she hasn't even formally accepted the nomination yet...

I fail to see how the McCain handlers didn't think that the stuff coming out now was never going to be known. Having grown up in the redneck side of Cincinnati, which itself is stuck in the middle of a redneck part of the country, I can safely say that I recognize rednecks when I see them: the Palins are rednecks, and so far everything I have seen in the press about the family bears out that impression.

Maybe that's the sort of counterpart the GOP wants for McCain's aesthetic, but I am having a hard time figuring this one out. Maybe John simply forgot he had to pick a running mate, and the night before realized he hadn't done it yet, and just grabbed a name out of a hat.

Of course, I could be totally off base -- America is a country full of rednecks, and the Palin shenanigans may turn out to be a huge selling point in November. "Hey, she's just like us!" *shrug*

[KungFooMasta]

It was a carefully calculated political move. It is clear the GOP wanted someone to appeal to the hardline right wing, as well as appeal to the disaffected Clinton voters. Woman? Check. Anti-abortion? Check. Anti-gay-marriage? Check.

I didn't know much about her and I read some brief info from wikipedia. It does seem she fits all those categories.

Of course, I could be totally off base -- America is a country full of rednecks, and the Palin shenanigans may turn out to be a huge selling point in November. "Hey, she's just like us!" *shrug*

Being from alaska, I'd assume she is more in tune with nature and the environment, right? Different interpretations I suppose, nothing really wrong with rednecks, unless they're into the incest gig like all the jokes suggest.

[warmi]

It was a carefully calculated political move. It is clear the GOP wanted someone to appeal to the hardline right wing, as well as appeal to the disaffected Clinton voters. Woman? Check. Anti-abortion? Check. Anti-gay-marriage? Check.

The problem is that you don't pick a VP candidate by resume any more than you hire a job candidate solely by resume. And even on that basis of resume...they just gave away the main argument they had about Obama -- depth of experience in government.

This all may end up backfiring badly -- she is already becoming an embarrassment to the ticket IMO, and she hasn't even formally accepted the nomination yet...

I fail to see how the McCain handlers didn't think that the stuff coming out now was never going to be known. Having grown up in the redneck side of Cincinnati, which itself is stuck in the middle of a redneck part of the country, I can safely say that I recognize rednecks when I see them: the Palins are rednecks, and so far everything I have seen in the press about the family bears out that impression.

Maybe that's the sort of counterpart the GOP wants for McCain's aesthetic, but I am having a hard time figuring this one out. Maybe John simply forgot he had to pick a running mate, and the night before realized he hadn't done it yet, and just grabbed a name out of a hat.

Of course, I could be totally off base -- America is a country full of rednecks, and the Palin shenanigans may turn out to be a huge selling point in November. "Hey, she's just like us!" *shrug*

Rednecks ... shrugs ..

Man you are really full of it aren't you ?

[xavier]

Rednecks ... shrugs ..

You disagree?

[warmi]

Rednecks ... shrugs ..

You disagree?

With rendecks or with you ?

Seriously though ... I found it a bit condescending, that's all.

[johnhpus]

It may seem condescending to some, warmi. But I live in rural Missouri where rednecks and hillbillies are by far the dominate demographic, and the truth is that so far xavier may be right about Palin playing well with those sorts of people.

Just today I was having a conversation with my McCain supporting grandmother and she actually does identify with Palin over the pregnancy of her unwed daughter. And I'm pretty sure that any sort of pro-gun, anti-gay platform will play equally well with her.

It just doesn't take much to play on the prejudices of the common people. At least not in this area. I have been amazed at how frequently the locals will deny that their opposition to Obama is based on race. They may not know it themselves. But if you ask them to clarify why they think McCain is better than Obama they can't provide a real answer. All they can manage is, at best, to regurgitate some of whatever they've heard from Fox News or Rush Limbaugh lately.

The reason they can't accurately assail or defend either candidate is that they don't know a damn thing about beyond the color of their skin. I would guarantee that 9/10 locals couldn't identify five major policy difference between McCain and Obama.

Anyway, I do love my local idiot citizenry, but these people are most definitely rednecks, and it would be fair to assign almost total ignorance to your approximation of these people. They really, truly have no idea what's going on in the larger world.

[reptor]

PS.
She has English, Irish, and German ancestry - btw. Palin is not her maiden name.

Well, yeah, maybe my question should have been, if her husband's family is from Fenno-Scandia.

Miss Scandinavia 2000 is Palin, by the way. Saija Palin.

[KungFooMasta]

johnhpus, why is it you live in Missouri, if there are mainly rednecks and hillbillies? Family, or is there some redneck/hillbilly job that matches your skillset?

What is the main definition of a redneck? I looked it up on google and found this:

An uneducated, unsophisticated, or poor white person, typically used to describe residents of the rural Southern US

If this is the case, it sounds like our education system is lacking in Missouri.

[warmi]

.. and the truth is that so far xavier may be right about Palin playing well with those sorts of people.

So what ? Are these people somehow less deserving of representation than so-called “progressivesâ€

[xavier]

johnhpus, why is it you live in Missouri, if there are mainly rednecks and hillbillies? Family, or is there some redneck/hillbilly job that matches your skillset?

What is the main definition of a redneck? I looked it up on google and found this:

An uneducated, unsophisticated, or poor white person, typically used to describe residents of the rural Southern US

If this is the case, it sounds like our education system is lacking in Missouri.

It's less a defined social class, as it is a state of mind. For example, the typical redneck response to issues in the Middle East is "nuke em all, let God sort it out". I've heard that espoused by individuals I would consider educated, so the Wikipedia definition is a bit too narrow and targeted. Rednecks don't live solely in the U.S. south.

[Evak]

Just think, if McCain dies from some illness common to the elderly she might end up being the new president before his terms up. There's a scary thought

Early this week I was cynically wondering if McCain was a good old fashioned dirty old man, what with the pretty blonde wife half his age, and now ex beauty queen.

Only thing that really concerns me about her being investigated on her possible abuse of her position and influence with her brother in law. Which wouldn't be very professional and won't be cleared up till right before the election.

[xavier]

Sounds like we touched a nerve here, Warmi -- is there something in your experience or past that you would like to share, or would you prefer to continue casting personal attacks?

The point I was making, before you derailed it, was that the overall judgement of the Republican party is in question here. By all accounts, there was virtually no vetting of Palin as a VP candidate other than the "ticking off of checkboxes" I mentioned.

It's almost as if the Republican Party decided to throw the election. They managed to pick, seemingly with no thought devoted to the matter, someone who (a) has virtually no experience in governing or politics (even though they've spent an enormous amount of energy trying to pin the "lack of experience" label on Obama); (b) someone who is actively embroiled in an ethics scandal in her home state (even while they claim the moral high ground on the fight to bring ethics back to governance); (c) someone whose family issues run squarely counter to the "moral majority" right-wing they so desperately are trying to stir to action (putting those same conservatives in the invidious position of having to decide which is the lesser of two evils -- unwed pregnancy or right to life). They can say all they want that the pregnancy issue is a personal matter and should not be thrown about in the media (I mean really, a pregnant teenager? *that's* never happened before), but they would HAVE to have known that it would be made so anyway. Two months before the election?

The Bristol Palin issue is not what I am talking about here -- it's the overall package, and the serious concerns it raises about the ability of the Republican leadership to exercise far-sighted judgement. In this, IMO the Republicans have failed miserably.

[warmi]

Sounds like we touched a nerve here, Warmi -- is there something in your experience or past that you would like to share, or would you prefer to continue casting personal attacks?

There was nothing personal there ….

I simply don't understand why would you be willing to dismiss so many people just because they happened not to share your personal concept of what a meaningful life should look like.
Now , I don’t care what you think about them or any other group – what I find offensive is that you seem to be implying that even trying to acknowledge their concerns is a borderline offensive concept in itself.

Yeah, they might think “ hey, she is like us “ and so on .. but so what ? Fundamentally, this sort of political assessment is just as valid as anything else … whether you simply use a mental shortcut like this or attempt to get there using more sophisticated means, you will end up in the same place – after all, we all vote for people who tend to think the way we do.

[KungFooMasta]

A good read about Bristol's situation: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26501011/

[xavier]

Sounds like we touched a nerve here, Warmi -- is there something in your experience or past that you would like to share, or would you prefer to continue casting personal attacks?

There was nothing personal there ….

I beg to differ:

you don’t want to go thru your life being a presumptuous jerk, do you ?

Man you are really full of it aren't you ?

At any rate, you still are fixating, and I'm not sure why, unless the term I chose to use has some more personal meaning for you.

Do you have anything to add about the actual thread topic?

[xavier]

A good read about Bristol's situation: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26501011/

The gist of that article is more or less what I meant when I said "really, a pregnant teenager? *that's* never happened before".

The issue isn't that some 17-year-old girl is pregnant. The issue *is* that the Republican Party has come up with a serious "WTF" moment with the whole Palin selection...and thing is, there's nothing they can do about it now.

[johnhpus]

johnhpus, why is it you live in Missouri, if there are mainly rednecks and hillbillies? Family, or is there some redneck/hillbilly job that matches your skillset? Razz

...

If this is the case, it sounds like our education system is lacking in Missouri. Sad

I live in Missouri because of family. I would have been gone a long time ago if it weren't for that.

The education system in this area is actually pretty decent. Of course most people don't pursue a secondary education.

It's not that the people are lacking in basic knowledge. It's that there is a culture here of accepting whatever "the man" hands down and not doing any critical thinking. Fox News and right-wing media do a good job of manipulating people like that... you know, people who see national BRAND NAME news and illegally planted propaganda segments in local news and never question whether what they're saying is true.

johnhpus wrote:
.. and the truth is that so far xavier may be right about Palin playing well with those sorts of people.


So what ? Are these people somehow less deserving of representation than so-called “progressivesâ€

[warmi]

Your best interest can be guarded equally well whether you had a say in a matter or not.

Not really … only if both parties ( in this case accidentally) agree on what constitutes the best interest.

Did you assume that I was trying to convince people of my opinion?

No it is way beyond that. You are not even willing to give them the courtesy of having an independent opinion.
As soon as you assert that they don't know what's good for them ( which what "They may not know it themselves" essentially is) , it becomes completely pointless.

It is better defined, at least in regard to the people here in Missouri, as a lack of critical thinking. It's a foreign thing to these people.

No it is not. It is found across the board ... there are plenty of “sophisticatedâ€

[reptor]

I don't quite understand the "redneck" thing. Why Americans quite often mention it.

Maybe because I have never been to the USA. I was born and have always lived in Finland.

I don't hear people talk like that about other people here.

As an example, I noticed some Americans like to wear shirts which look like a NASCAR fan shirt, but instead it says "redneck". That's pretty insulting in my opinion. It is insulting the intelligence of people. Personally, I would never ever wear such a shirt.


Maybe there is something in the USA which I would have to see by myself, on the location, to understand what makes people mock others like that. Based on a sport preference or something else equally silly.

[xavier]

Warmi:

Why do you instantly assume that someone who disagrees with you is "progressive"? Are you sure that word means what you think it means?

I would not qualify myself as progressive...but neither would I describe myself as conservative. You seem to forget that many people *do* have the ability to think and observe for themselves, based on their life experiences, and come to conclusions on their own, without being led by the nose by the media.

[xavier]

Maybe because I have never been to the USA.