Maybe its just me, but if a new (MMO)RPG comes out most of the times it is fantasy based (or science fiction). That is a problem for people like me, because although I do like the Lords of the Ring movies, in general I don't like fantasy (that includes Harry Potter and Cronicles of Narnia (I even didn't get that one, the world of Narnia was waiting for 4 children without any skills to save them )). I also don't like science fiction games (but I do like the movies), so what is left for me? (maybe my geekfactor is too low (see http://www.thudfactor.com/geekquiz.php)).
I was looking at World War 2 online, but the problem with that one is that it is too realistic (at least the gameplay but not the graphics). I just read Steve's blog and I totally agree. Gaming must be fun and what is the fun when I'm shot dead and have to start all over again? If I want that I better join the real army. Why doesn't Activision relases a Call of Duty MMORPG/MMOFPS?
That's the major issue in the (MMO)RPG industry; too many people/companies think it has to be fantasy/medieval/virtual to be part of the genre. It doesn't. We were talking about it at a gathering I went to the other week, and it seems to be quite a significant gap in the market. There's also too much competition around, everyone wants to be like World of Warcraft. It ain't going to happen, it's the major reason why the fail rate is so high. People should move into different and more specialised markets.
We were also discussing the GTA MMO that has just begun development with the guys at Rockstar here in Yorkshire. That's should be a huge success, because it's different.
I am not sure if the setting plays that much of a role for the success of an MMO (unless it is something way too weird, scaring people away). From my experience lots of people are attracted to WoW who otherwise aren't fans of the fantasy genre at all. My guess is that the usual gameplay mechanics used within MMOs translate the most natural to a fantasy- or scifi-setting.
I recall reading an article about this a few months ago, but I can't dig it up with a few minutes of goggling.
From memory, the logic was that devs choose fantasy because it's the lowest common denominator. "Everyone" knows what a bow or a crossbow, or a sword or a knight-riding-a-horse, or a castle, etc "mean" (whether through history at school, watching shows on tv, fantasy movies/tvshows, whatever) so you don't need to educate them as to the base level of knowledge, and can just tell them the differences. They also have a good mental "feel" of how things should work, but it's not enough accurate that even if you mix things that don't make sense together (knights in shining armour and gunpowder based weapons? for that matter castles didn't really survive the development of cannons either...), people won't have a close enough connection to things for it to be distracting.
"Real world" is avoided since it tends to require "reality" to be modeled well, which is hard, even if you use "real world plus a little more" (like Vampire) or "near future" (like Shadowrun). I liked the latest Vampire game that came out a few years ago, but I didn't really find it all that immersive. It didn't have things that I "expected" in a city; Cops turning up to a shootout, crowds of people milling around doing their thing, it really felt like a bit of a ghost town. I found Deus Ex (the original) didn't have so much of an effect on me since they had a plausable reason (most of the areas you were in were in some sort of lockdown, or out in the middle of nowhere as I recall), but DX: Invisible War had the same issue as the Vampire game, it just didn't feel like there was enough people there for a modern city for example (whereas in fantasy games a handful of people in a town seems "fine" after all most are probably out in the fields during the day...)
Sci-fi is the hardest because you're essentially working with a clean slate. For example, even each sci-fi tv show/movie tends to have a different set of technobabble, and a different look and feel. There's no "crossbow" of weapons or "warrior" of classes. The guy who specalises in computer work could be called a "hacker" or a "neuromancer" or a "netrunner" or "decker", you need to decide what it's called (unless you're using a purchased IP, like Trek or Shadowrun or something), and then the hard part is you need to somehow need to make it obvious to the poor player who's just bought your game having to sit down and work out what all these strange terms are just to build their character.
Anyway, it generally boils down to "what is the most easily accessible to a new user" and that's normally fantasy. Wish I could have dug up the article it went through it a bit clearer then my attempt at explaining it.
Some mmorpgs out now which aren't really typical scifi or fantasy:
- 9 Dragons (chinese martial arts game set in the ming dynasty)
- A Tale In The Desert 3 (set in ancient egypt)
- Battleground Europe: WWII Online
- Bounty Bay Online (pirates)
- Habbo Hotel
- Kicks Online (soccer mmo)
- Navy Field (WWII naval combat mmo)
- Oz World (A whole mmo about fishing)
- Pirates of the Burning Sea (more pirates)
- Puzzle Pirates (yet more pirates)
- RAN Online (be a student at a japanese college, doing homework, signing up for classes, etc. Plus kill people with swords)
- Roma Victor (roman empire)
- Shot Online (golf mmorpg)
- World of Pirates (hmm, those pirates of the caribbean movies have a lot to answer for)
- Second Life (mainly porn, and stores, and porn stores)
- There
Some on the way:
- The Agency (secret agent mmo)
- All Points Bulletin (police/criminal mmo)
- Hello Kitty Online (definitely not typical scifi or fantasy)
But scifi and fantasy definitely outnumber the alternatives. Then again, scifi and fantasy outnumber other themes in rpgs too, so it makes sense that mmorpgs follow that trend.
The ultimate non scifi / fantasy mmorpg about typical modern life: The Sims Online, was a complete flop.
A GTA mmo could be successful, but it might not. It depends on if they lose focus on what makes GTA fun. That's why The Sims Online failed while The Sims still pulls in the cash, they didn't realise that 99% of their customers want user made content and unlimited money: players wanted a virtual doll house not a game. The online version got rid of user content and forced you to work for a living to earn money to buy furniture.
I can't wait for Jumpgate Evolution. Hell yeah, a space sim mmo which uses joystick control!
(I'm a space sim fan)
Second Life is a really odd game.
I sometimes explore it to find funny screenshots.
I've found a working airport with scripted planes which can take you to other zones.
I found a free stargate which I carry around (there's a network of stargates, just place one somewhere and speak out loud the name of a known destination and the gate does an animated dialling sequence then activates, touching it sends you to the destination).
I got attacked by a wave of thousands of charles manson photos which came bouncing over the zone.
I've seen 30+ person orgies.
I've walked through the aisles of a store where all the walls are covered with genitals you can buy for your character.
I even found a medieval castle which sold animated sexual torture devices (which I can't describe here since I'd have to ban myself).
What I haven't found so far is anything fun.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to die."
I must admit I'm not all that sure what to make of Second Life either. The university I work for has apparently purchased an "island" there, and from memory of a presentation a few months ago, they've got a dozen researchers and research students doing stuff with it. The only thing I really remember was that someone was doing something like a "process work-flow walk-through". Not a physical one where you'd model up a dozen buildings based on the university campus and walk people though it (say like student admission process), but of a paper-shuffling exercise (like the staff back-end of admitting a student or something, "this form must be signed, then it gets sent to this person, who then does this, etc, etc"). It was interesting enough, but it felt pretty pointless, and was certainly not very "gamey".
Yep, after playing Second Life I usually wish I had a limited lifespan and Harrison Ford is trying to murder me.
There's a lot of potential there. It's a massive world. You have an unprecedented degree of character customisation. They allow user made content. There's a 3d editor built in. There's a powerful scripting language. You can own regions of the world and build anything you want there. It's got a physics engine. It's free to play. You can even legally earn real life money from it without pissing off the owners. The client is even open source so you can customise it. It's pretty much the ultimate virtual world.
But there's so much lag that it can take minutes for the area you are in to load fully. You'll spend a lot of time bumping into invisible things which haven't loaded yet. Almost everything costs money, and unlike other mmos the money here is linked to real world currency.
Without paying, you can only build your own content and practice scripting in a sandbox region, and they are filled with griefing items (giant flying squid which home in on you and hover around your head, charles manson particle system proximity mines, etc).
I know a few people who play it, and they all make custom content to sell to others. There's no actual gameplay. It's kind of a cross between /b/ and The Sims.
My attempts at character creation:
Any game which gives you a furry as one of the default avatars is a cause for concern:
And here comes the mansons:
This is what happens when users can make their own content:
My opinion on the whole fantasy genre deal... it's because it's "popular". And people will latch onto "popular" until they start being ridiculed for staying on board with what used to be "popular". I believe that process is too slow, personally.
But alas, as others have pointed out, there are definitely other genres out there alive and kicking. The whole F2P MMO scene is on fire... seems at least once a week I hear about some new F2P entering a beta phase. Quite a few FPS, Racing, and "social" ones, but still more on the fantasy side overall.
Relating to Second Life- I hate it. Not actively mind you... I wouldn't beat down Second Life in an alley if it was alone, but I would laugh at it if someone else did. Maybe I'd poke it with a stick while it lay unconscious after said beating. Simply because it's got that whole "chicken before the egg" thing going on. The engine is pretty clunky and out-dated, which shows. I like the idea, but the execution stinks. The lag being a big part of it. Why do developers insist on making these huge social platforms, and throw network communication optimization out the window?! Bah, I could on and on about why I despise Second Life, but it's off-topic.
I'd definitely like to see less "fantasy" MMOs, and some newer more innovative styles. Like say, an MMO titled "The Island", where players are all on a deserted island and can work together to build, gather supplies, etc. Initially the closed/open betas would have the first waves of castaways building the island up a bit, so once it reached a release version, new players would be welcomed to a charming lightly inhabited island. Then after say, 6 months of healthy "social dynamics" of players going about their boring days collecting wood to build that new hut they've been dreaming of... bam! Armageddon ensues and this lovely island is the last safe haven on Earth. Now random baddies will show up at the island, via boat or perhaps strange flying contraptions. Players now have to work together to defend their island. With the baddies showing up, players now have a chance to get new resources as well, leading to new possibilities for player created structures (as a small example).
Life would go on this way, but eventually players might be able to wrangle a boat from the invaders, or build some other form of transportation- allowing them to embark on a journey back into the "world". So at some stage, players could choose to stay and live the island life, or see if they can survive out in the harsh post-apocalyptic world. Expansions would add to this outside world, so the world would grow larger with each release. Of course the game would be played at a slower pace than most others, and things would be difficult. 3 islanders with sticks versus a band of mercs with automatic rifles... yeah, clicking and watching your islander swat some guy, while being shot numerous times won't happen. You'd have to play smart... get in the bush and hunt your prey down, striking when the time is just right. So it would use a real-time interactive combat system basically. With smart AI, not some dumb grub that walks from point a to b, and waits to be swatted by the next passerby with a single mouse click, losing his 5 gold and Trainee's Boxers he coveted so much.
But sadly, what do we get? Oh! Another fantasy MMO where [insert generic history] happened? What can we do? Ooh! Grind all day! So I can buy that one sword! Oh, I'm in a clan now! We can all go and be bored together! I beat the game?! What can I do now? Ooh, more grinding, because they added 2 more levels to the cap, and a new sword! Yeah, it's definitely getting overrated. And not just fantasy, across the board. It reminds me of the old days, when the classic RPG scheme of "Enter character name, wake up in bad after mom yells about breakfast" started to get old. And I still play games that kick things off like that.
That sounds something like that Egyptian themed social MMO, umm... A Tale in the Desert? Seemed like an interesting concept, though I just recall when I looked into it a few years back that it seemed to simply replace one grind for another. Granted, it was "Grind for the Greater Good" rather then "Grind to beat a 40 man boss battle", but it still seemed like the same thing to me.
Would make for an interesting team game I guess if you shrunk the game time down and had an instance of it for every... I guess equalivent of "raid group", you could essentially play it like a game of MMO-Civ (desert, or island, or actually something based on Sid Miers' Alpha Centuari would be fun) . Trying to build your civilisation up as fast as possible in terms of game time vs player activity time and a bunch of other stats, to compete with other groups doing the same thing. Ending it once you've got to the "pinnacle of civilization" and starting again from scratch.
Add a spectator/social platform around it and you could have people interested in watching it watching it, even if they're insufficiently obsessive to play it.
Now where's a Korean MMORPG company's contact details when you need it?
Mind you that was an on-the-spot idea. But I like your iteration of it. Thing with ideas is, everyone has them. I'm still chuckling at your contact details comment.
Another idea I've had (for years, part of a dream game) was player jobs, that actually were part of the social scheme of things. Rather than the generic MMO recipe of class/sub-classes, you'd have professions, skills, etc. So if you were a professional thief, someone could hire you to steal something. Your profession would of course have a skill tree with it. Multiple players sharing the same profession could group together and form a corporation. This would be akin to guilds/clans.
Thing is, you wouldn't be tied down to one profession. When you start out, you're just a hobo on the streets. You have basic skills- walking, basic fighting (kick, punch... it's all in the mind?), things like that. As progress is made, you have the ability to learn new professions. Once you learn one, it's actually a "hobby". As you do more activities related to that hobby, it levels up, eventually becoming a profession. So you could be a profession thief, driver, etc., and also be a hobbyist assassin.
I've gotten a lot of ideas for MMOs after playing Eve Online. That's probably the only MMO I can respect, out of the vast ocean of em. It requires some thinking, and progress is way more rewarding... as far as the feeling of accomplishment goes. And working together with others feels much more natural. Eve has the whole corporation thing going on, and apparently just recently added some sort of certification system for players to get registered as being skilled [insert profession here].
Someone mentioned that CCP was working on a new MMO. I'm eagerly awaiting it! It's supposed to be something like vampires vs werewolves. It is indeed based on the Vampire Masquerade...
You know, you're right... I'm totally in a ranty mood today! I even lectured my girlfriend earlier about "communication". That was interesting, almost like an infinite loop .
Yes, actually I do have a blog. Something I thought I'd never desire to have. Link is under my avatar. And funny you should point out the rant bit... that's one of the tags on the blog!
Wretched_Wyx wrote:Mind you that was an on-the-spot idea. But I like your iteration of it. Thing with ideas is, everyone has them. I'm still chuckling at your contact details comment.
That's the problem. Everyone has ideas. Almost everyone has a business plan. It's rare for someone with ideas, and a business plan, and the experience to make it all work, to appear. Though even I, who thinks MMORPGs are a blight on the face of RPGs, would be interested in playing something like that. Though I'd much prefer if it was more of a single-player game of course.
Wretched_Wyx wrote:Another idea I've had (for years, part of a dream game) was player jobs, that actually were part of the social scheme of things. Rather than the generic MMO recipe of class/sub-classes, you'd have professions, skills, etc. So if you were a professional thief, someone could hire you to steal something. Your profession would of course have a skill tree with it. Multiple players sharing the same profession could group together and form a corporation. This would be akin to guilds/clans.
Thing is, you wouldn't be tied down to one profession. When you start out, you're just a hobo on the streets. You have basic skills- walking, basic fighting (kick, punch... it's all in the mind?), things like that. As progress is made, you have the ability to learn new professions. Once you learn one, it's actually a "hobby". As you do more activities related to that hobby, it levels up, eventually becoming a profession. So you could be a profession thief, driver, etc., and also be a hobbyist assassin.
Sounds like an evolution of Ultima Online's original skill system.
Wretched_Wyx wrote:I've gotten a lot of ideas for MMOs after playing Eve Online. That's probably the only MMO I can respect, out of the vast ocean of em. It requires some thinking, and progress is way more rewarding... as far as the feeling of accomplishment goes. And working together with others feels much more natural. Eve has the whole corporation thing going on, and apparently just recently added some sort of certification system for players to get registered as being skilled [insert profession here].
I must admit whilst I do have cravings for another Spreadsheet RPG of Yore like Wizardry or similar, I have little patience for work and office politics when I'm getting paid, I have even less patience for work and office politics when I'm paying for the privilege. And no, just because it's space-ship-related office politics doesn't make it any more fun, if I wanted to arguments over spaceships I'd argue Trek vs StarWars with a cow-orker.
)). I also don't like science fiction games (but I do like the movies), so what is left for me? (maybe my geekfactor is too low (see http://www.thudfactor.com/geekquiz.php)).
.