New forum section: Game development

[mrmclovin]

I'd really like to see new forums on Game development topics (using Ogre of course). Since many projects based on Ogre are games it would be a nice place for discussions on implementing diffrent code designs along with Ogre. We already have a big thread(over 20 pages!) on the Component Based Game Object design. There's also a couple of more known code patterns related to game development that should be brought up for discussion. For example Component Design, Traditional heirachy design, Enity System and so on. My proposal would be a Game Development section with a set of sub-sections.

-> Game developement in Ogre
--> Component Based Game Objects
--> Entity System
--> ....

What do you say?

[jacmoe]

In theory: a good idea.
In practice: not so good.

We already have enough trouble figuring out how to handle the existing forum categories.

But: since our forum software supports subforums, maybe a practical software design subforum in Ogre in Practice?

It's just that it'd get out of hand really quickly.

<edit>
Thinking about it some more, I think that a dedicated subforum in practice would be good.
If chosen carefully, subforums (subfora?) would help to focus discussions.
</edit>

[KungFooMasta]

There are a lot of hard working, talented, and knowledgable individuals in the Ogre community. Its not specifically graphics related, but I think there would be a lot of community benefit from having a Game Development Forum. Everybody is using Ogre to build something, why not share pros and cons, what could be done better, etc?

[mrmclovin]

since our forum software supports subforums, maybe a practical software design subforum in Ogre in Practice?

Why not make a 'Using OGRE in games'? Then make sub forums for a few -Well known- design approaches?

[jacmoe]

You probably know this already: Ogre is not a game engine.
Your component based talk applies to much more than mere games.

[KungFooMasta]

Ok, a "Framework/Engine Design" forum.

[mrmclovin]

You probably know this already: Ogre is not a game engine.
Your component based talk applies to much more than mere games.

Hmm I know. But can't you do an exception in this case? It would've been SO useful for developers using Ogre with this kind of subforum. I mean, ogre-games will probably get better and done faster!

I also know there's forums out there already like gamedev.net but I like the Ogre community and this will be more Ogre specfic!

[haffax]

I agree with jacmoe. Another forum is unnecessary. There is already much ambiguity between the existing subforums.
This kind of questions is better handled in other forums, like gamedev.net. And if you need specific advice on how to integrate a technique with Ogre, you can ask it here.

I am aware, that there is the odd successful thread on some issues. Like KungFooMasta's component thread, which I am following closely. But obviously it fits already in the forum structure as it stands. We have much traffic here, but not so much, that our current structure bursts.

[jacmoe]

I am fairly happy with the way things are now.
Have a suspicion that you'll cuddle up in the same topic anyway, no matter where it is.
It's a natural thing to do: it's a continuation of a topic.
That component topic has a life of its own. It will never be lost.

<edit>
I am not entirely against the idea of a subforum, but I am not sure if it's going to work. I see people having development design discussions all over the place, here, in addons, elsewhere.
Maybe a bit unnatural to stuff it in a subforum, out of context?
But, I am not the one holding the green or the red light.
</edit>

[sinbad]

Generally I resist further subdivision of the forums. The more you subdivide, the more likely you are to post / look in the wrong place because it's more likely your post subjects crosses multiple boundaries. For every person who thinks 'great, a subcategory that fits my needs precisely', you find 20 who say 'my subject can cross 3 possible categories, where do I post it / look for it?'

Frankly, I'd be more in favour of merging some of the current forums than creating more subdivisions. Deeply nested web directories died for a reason, search is the way forward.

I'd rule game development right out anyway. Ogre is a graphics engine, and the things you do with it and the questions you ask about it are never only relevant to game development. Really, never. Any question you could validly ask here about Ogre would be equally relevant to other fields. So I see no value in a subcategory of that type - and if it's just about general game development and not Ogre, then it should be in GameDev.net's forums instead, because you'll get a bigger sample.

[jacmoe]

I agree.
GameDev.net's Game Development forum is rather good actually.

I would want General Discussion gone, if I can request that.
It's a useless forum, IMO.

[DanielSefton]

I always thought the categories in this forum were pretty good - it's clear where to place topics. There's not much need for change, but I guess it wouldn't hurt either.

I never quite got the "Using Ogre in practice" forum... And like Jacmoe said, the General Discussion forum is questionable. A little reorganisation there maybe.

The only new forum section I would like is a beginners forum. Because, we get dozens of topics every few days on people new to Ogre, and wanting help with the absolute basics, cluttering up the Help forum. "Stuck on Tutorial X" is a common one, and of course every other "Is Ogre for me?", "Linker errors" etc. I'd like to see the help forum populated with more advanced problems. Plus, that might even reduce the amount of those kind of posts because they will have somewhere to search and refer to when stuck - and a few stickies pointing people to the right places would be nice.

[jacmoe]

Honourable cause, but a lost one.
Sad but true.
I think we are doing fine, all in all, considering the size of the community.

[betajaen]

I really don't think there should be a Game Development forum, or the General Forum should go.

However I think a more vague "Design practises and theories using Ogre" forum would still be in the spirit of the original idea, but keeping it vague enough that other programming strategies can be discussed about.

[Speedo]

It really seems to me that existing categories really probably cover the need for this.

My main request forum-wise would be to merge the addons forum into this one. It's just annoying to have to visit two seperate forums for what's essentially the same subject (OGRE).

[jacmoe]

You are slightly wrong: Addons Forum is very focused.
We made a separate forum because we didn't want addon questions all over the place here.
Or in topics spanning 40 pages..

[Speedo]

You are slightly wrong: Addons Forum is very focused.
We made a separate forum because we didn't want addon questions all over the place here.
Or in topics spanning 40 pages..

Seems to me that's happening regardless (just like there are numerous questions about CEGUI and OIS here), because that's just how people are. I don't really see any gains from an organizational standpoint, but you are adding annoyance for the users.

[DanielSefton]

Seems to me that's happening regardless (just like there are numerous questions about CEGUI and OIS here), because that's just how people are. I don't really see any gains from an organizational standpoint, but you are adding annoyance for the users.

The addons are community-led projects which have no direct relation to Ogre. It's there to give addon developers an official home to offer help & support without having to setup their own. It's there for convenience. Not everyone uses the plugins.

OIS and CEGUI are exceptions really... Although most of the time people are directed to the appropriate forum if the issues are too specific. But cluttering up the Ogre forums with Bullet, PhysX, ODE, OpenAL, Python-Ogre, Caelum, Hydrax etc. would be ridiculous.

[jacmoe]

I don't see any reason for encouraging *how people are* - I am very keen on telling people to ask CEGUI questions at http://www.cegui.org.uk and OIS questions at http://www.wreckedgames.com/forum.
These questions are not Ogre questions.
Same goes for OgreNewt, Ogitor, OgreBullet, etc.
Of course, there are borderline questions..

<edit>DanielSefton: Agreed. </edit>

[reptor]

I don't think this place needs a "game development" forum.

I was surprised of the request actually as I think things are working fine with the current forum layout.

[Vectrex]

I think it'd be fine to shift the addons forums to the bottom of the main forum page. Alot of questions are about things in the addons that beginners don't realise exist.

The only one I'd add is 'Help - Advanced' for experienced devs to ask trickier questions. Advanced things tend to get lost really quickly as they take a while for someone experienced to notice them.

[DanielSefton]

The only one I'd add is 'Help - Advanced' for experienced devs to ask trickier questions. Advanced things tend to get lost really quickly as they take a while for someone experienced to notice them.

That's why I'd like a beginners forum, then the existing help forum can be used by more experienced users. But for some reason the idea is pushed aside. The help forum has over four times as many posts as other forums - and I bet half of those are link errors, compile problems, tutorial issues and people asking where to start.

[reptor]

I think it is important to have a clear distinction between what is supported by the Ogre3D project team and what is not.

All the stuff at the AddOns forums is AFAIK not supported by the Ogre3D project, and as such, it would be questionable to move then here to the main forum - I can see people starting to bug the Ogre3D team for support for those Addons.

I don't have a problem having to log in to the Addons forum separately. If I had a project and a website like this, I would also want to separate the 3rd-party addons support forums away from the main forums so that it is much less likely that people think I am somehow responsible for giving support for the users of those addons.

It is of course the decision of the Ogre3D team and not mine here at this website, I just thought that I should voice my opinion to support the current structure.