Blender as a Level Editor - dotScene

[Chris Jones]

im making an unreal tournament style game
im thinking of using blender as a level editor aswell as modeller
ive been looking at some editors, especially for dotScene, but theyre nowhere near completion. i know blender can export to dotScene, altho im now sure if this is the format i should use

i want my game to be able to be very interactive and dont want the file format from stopping that.

can anybody recommend any level editors that i can use, and that work perfectly well with ogre. i need to be able to specify objects that arent visible, like starting positions and doors

i can parse the entities loaded afterwards, e.g. if starting positions have a certain naming convention, ill search for that name, and remove the entity

i know bsp is used in unreal tournament and am thinking mab this game could use it.

i need to find out what format and editor etc im going to use, so that is another part of my design sorted

thanks

[reimpell]

i need to be able to specify objects that arent visible, like starting positions and doors

i can parse the entities loaded afterwards, e.g. if starting positions have a certain naming convention, ill search for that name, and remove the entity

The Blender dotScene exporter has an option to export additional object properties that can be defined with Blender's logic buttons. As these aren't part of the dotscene.dtd you have to use a custom loader. At least there is no need to use naming convention.

[Chris Jones]

ah, thats cool

whats a dtd?

when u say make a custom loader, do u mean from scratch? or can an existing loader be added to, or inherit a class and override parts?

how would i go about this? is there any links/docs about this?

[Kentamanos]

whats a dtd?

A DTD is a document that explains the format of an XML document. So the docscene.dtd file describes what scene files will look like.

It allows you to programmatically validate an XML document as being properly formatted.

There are also XML Schema (.xsd's normally), Schematron, and a few other format specification/validation formats.

[Chris Jones]

thanks for your replies

i tried blender, added some properties to an object and exported to dotScene, i know how to add them, thanks

i will use blender as my map editor! not long until i can start my game

i will ask about custom loading the scene files in the help forum as that seems to be a better place to ask

can i put skyboxes in my scene, using blender and export to dotScene? if so, how?

[DarkSeraph]

I'm currently frustrated trying to find a good indoor level editor. I tried using Blender, but after I make a box (for a room) I can't see inside of it to put any detail into it and see what I'm doing, and much less I can't see what textures are on what until I point the camera at what I want to look at and render it. Any advice? Are there any other level editors that would work well for my situation?

[jacmoe]

I think you´ll be able to look inside of your box if you flip the normals.
(Don't ask me how to do that in Blender..)
You will want your walls facing inwards, instead of outwards.

[discipline]

I can't see what textures are on what until I point the camera at what I want to look at and render it.

Z toggles between shaded and wire frame mode. Alt+Z switches this into textured mode. It will show your UV mappings in this mode. Very cool! Not sure about the seeing insid a box problem. I've encountered it too, but haven't needed to experiment.

[haffax]

When the 3d view is in texture mode, backfaces are culled from view. So just switch to edit mode, if not already there (TAB), switch to face selection mode (the little triangle in the 3dview toolbar) and select all faces of the room and press the "flip normals" button in the button view on the editing panel in the mesh tools subpanel.

Now you should be able to see inside the room. (Backfaces are only culled when in texture mode and object mode)

I can highly recommend to group things into Layers. Layers can be switched on and off separatly and you can concentrate on the items at hand.
Here is the introduction on layers from the manual: http://www.blender.org/modules/document ... tart_start

[DarkSeraph]

Still trying to work out the flipping the normal thing, I didn't get enough time last night to play with it.

Can I get textures to show up if they are just applied to an object? I don't really have the need to UV map everything (since I'm level editing, not modeling) and I really don't WANT to UV map everything, it's just an extra step that I could avoid all together.

For example: I followed a tutorial, UV mapped a Sphere, and the texture doesn't line up, but if I just apply a texture and tell it that it's a sphere (instead of cube tube etc) it looks fine when I render it, but won't appear in the editor. So is it possible to be able to see textures on an object that hasn't been UV mapped?

[haffax]

DarkSeraph, no it ain't afaik. But this doesn't matter really, as there is no way (yet) to import a nonuv-mapped texture to Ogre, but to make it an Ogre export it all about if I understood you correctly.
Anyway, you can group the room walls into different objects and use layers to disable/enable them. This way you can show through the walls in any mode you like.

[discipline]

DarkSeraph: you can display your materials in shaded mode (z) and those can be exported to ogre. Regarding UV mapping onto a sphere, there are preconfigured mappings such as cube, sphere, cylinder, etc. If those don't work you can completely customize how the uv map applies to the sphere or any object. Every level I've seen in any game is uv mapped. Without uv mapping, and since textures aren't exported, you'll just get solid color walls with specular and/or diffuse lighting.

[Chris Jones]

i read somewhere that blender doesnt do backface culling, im currently having this problem of indoor levels, as every level for my game is indoor

i tried putting a level in textured mode, but i still couldnt see through the walls that were facing away from the camera, altho the model wasnt textured, does it only work if they are textured?

i will look into the layers feature

[haffax]

I guess so, Chris. At least for me it was this way. But still: Layers help to keep things organised. Just disable the layer for the walls, when you want to see into the chambers.

[DarkSeraph]

Yes, layers would be the way to go, I couldn't get backface culling to work either. Now I just can't justify spending the time on every level to UV map every item in it, I wouldn't become lazy and my levels would lose the amount of detail that I would like to put into them because they would take me so insanely long to make. Maybe I'm spoiled cuz I'm used to Hammer and the like, but that just seems retarded to me.

ok, I'm done ranting.

[haffax]

Yeah, aligning textures in Hammer sounds like some real fun.

[discipline]

I found one solution for not being able to see inside the level:

In edit mode, select some of outside faces (ie ceiling and a couple of walls), the click "Hide". The 3d window strips them away from the view allowing one to work inside. When switching to object mode, or rendering the walls reappear. Moving the camera inside also renders properly.

[Nazrix]

I'm currently frustrated trying to find a good indoor level editor. I tried using Blender, but after I make a box (for a room) I can't see inside of it to put any detail into it and see what I'm doing, and much less I can't see what textures are on what until I point the camera at what I want to look at and render it. Any advice? Are there any other level editors that would work well for my situation?

What I found to work better is instead of making a box for the whole room, make a skinny cube that represents just one wall. So a typical room could be 4 cubes for 4 walls. One cube for the ceiling and one for the floor.

This causes all the normals to be in their correct places automatically.

Also, as for applying UVs in Blender, if you highlight an object and go to the UV map editor it will automatically apply UVs to the whole cube (all 6 sides)

[Chris Jones]

wouldnt using 6 planes be alot easier?

also, arent they then seperate models? not 1 whole model?
or is there a way of attaching them together once they are all UV mapped? will the UVs etc still be correct then?

[Nazrix]

wouldnt using 6 planes be alot easier?

also, arent they then seperate models? not 1 whole model?
or is there a way of attaching them together once they are all UV mapped? will the UVs etc still be correct then?

Well planes would be fine if you only wanted to view the room from the inside. Sorry if that's what you meant. So if you always are inside rooms then, yes planes are better.

As for joining, yes, you use Ctrl + J in Blender to join highlighted meshes together.

[DarkSeraph]

Yeah, aligning textures in Hammer sounds like some real fun.

actually it's pretty easy since you can expand and retract it to any size you want and move it around to any position you want, just by typing in a couple numbers and then getting it right, takes 15 seconds tops. It's easier than you think, and there are a lot of shortcuts that Valve put in for lazy people...

I'm sure UV mapping would be easier when I get better at it, but it gives me a level of control(for the price of spending more time on it) that I don't need. I guess I can play with it a bit more, and then maybe just pray qsilver makes that map>mesh.

And yes, the idea would be completely indoors, or I could use something else pretty easily, outdoor editors seem to be in abundance for Ogre, and then just place models in there.

I'll try the "hide" idea, but I never could move the camera inside of the walls was another problem... we'll see.

[discipline]

Before I posted last, I made a cube, hid three faces and put the camera inside the box. Then I made a cone in the box, in front of the camera. It rendered properly, and I could see in the box in edit mode, and the whole box in object mode.

[Harlequin]

I guess I can play with it a bit more, and then maybe just pray qsilver makes that map>mesh.

Actually I've have written such a tool for our project, some time ago. If you desparetly want to stick with Hammer, then I will pass you a link.

Our Mapper/Levelcreator migrated from Hammer to Blender as well, not without some difficulties (which were the cause of the creation of the converter), but now he is more than happy and enjoying the increased possibilities. It takes some time, but UV Mapping is far better and with LSCM Unwrap as easy as in Hammer. Once you get used to it

// I'm talking about Hammer 3.4 for good old Half-Life. Not the one for HL². But you were talking about map>mesh and not .qwf>mesh or whatever it is called now

Bear in mind that content created with Hammer may only by used with the apropriate games from Valve as stated in the EULA.