Ogre Forums

I am now participating in the Gamification course from Coursera, so ...

I'm fascinated by the success of StackOverflow.
Worth of those virtual points come from the respect and recognition other people give them.
It's something you are proud to be putting in your resume.

Are you sure about writing your own tho? There are many projects with the same functionality.
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions ... low-clones

And every single one of those made with PHP sucks. For various reasons.

I have quite bit of experience with MVC frameworks.
There are fun to use You feel in control.

Keep us informed

saejox wrote:There are fun to use You feel in control.

Are you sure? Because they actually take control away from you and only feed you crumbs through the C part of MVC

jacmoe wrote:And every single one of those made with PHP sucks. For various reasons.

Primary reason being, of course, PHP

CABAListic wrote:Primary reason being, of course, PHP

Well, C++ gives you 10x more ways to shoot yourself in the foot compared to PHP yet I doubt you would say that C++ is the reason behind something being total crap My experience is that PHP5 is quite good for web development and you can use it to create large-scale projects with great success as long as you've got your fundamentals right. But I know how the average web project looks all too well and I should say that if the developer is crap the code is the same no matter if it's PHP, Perl, Java, Ruby, or something else.

Last time I did some web app, it was Django, it was cool but couldnt' work more on the project unfortunately (otherwise it would have made money!!! $$$$)

But each time I think of making a web app, I really want to try doing it with cppcms, just because it's c++ and I want to have some experience with it.

bstone wrote:

CABAListic wrote:Primary reason being, of course, PHP

Well, C++ gives you 10x more ways to shoot yourself in the foot compared to PHP yet I doubt you would say that C++ is the reason behind something being total crap My experience is that PHP5 is quite good for web development and you can use it to create large-scale projects with great success as long as you've got your fundamentals right. But I know how the average web project looks all too well and I should say that if the developer is crap the code is the same no matter if it's PHP, Perl, Java, Ruby, or something else.

Well, my comment was meant as a joke, but I do seriously think that PHP is 100x worse than C++. At least with C++ you know what you are getting into. PHP, on the other hand, is simply the worst programming language ever designed (with the exception, perhaps, of jokes like Brainfuck).
Just take a look: http://www.phpsadness.com/
Or, if you have too much time: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/ph ... ad-design/

For all its shortcomings, C++ is nowhere near that level of crazy. Of course, you can still write good and beautiful apps with PHP, I just don't understand why you'd want to

It's amazing what people say about PHP..

Especially people who are not using PHP tend to be especially vile.

What makes PHP different from most other web development technologies is that it lives and dies by each request, and it is made especially for web development.
Contrary to snug dev techs like Ruby and Python where the web app is a long running process.
Even node.js is a process.

I suspect that what people really are being grumpy about is web development in general. It's a very young technology and has progressed rapidly.
So basing your (unfounded) hate on brief encounters with PHP years ago, is silly.

Javascript is one of those easy-to-hate technologies, but it has evolved and matured to a point where you can use it to write large-scale, beautiful-code applications.
The same evolution that PHP has undergone.

C and C++ is ugly as hell.
PHP is based on C, but has evolved.
It is also practical.
So, that's what I will use.
Based on practical and recent experience.

Sorry, did you actually look at the links I posted? Because I don't think you did. If you are a self-respecting developer, these issues have to bother you. You can decide to live with them, that's your choice. But this is not a question of taste; PHP is broken by design.

If you are a self-respecting person, stop making unfounded assumptions.

Should I look at the links you posted?
No. Of course not. I've read most - if not all - arguments against PHP over the years.
I am not impressed.
I don't think visiting phpsucks.com is worth my while.

It is much more fruitful, IMO, to be involved with the PHP community where it matters.

Any self-respecting developer knows the pros and cons, the strengths and the weaknesses, of the programming languages available to them.

Stop assuming that I haven't done my homework just because I've chosen a technology that you personally don't like.

Python and Ruby and Node.js are not flawless either.

You know what, I'm not actually interested in starting a flame war. The arguments are there, for anyone interested, any further "discussion" won't lead anywhere. So, sorry for bringing it up in the first place.

Haha, that's a lot of hate. Let's not turn this thread into a flame war. I will only say that PHP5 inherited most issues from PHP4 just like C++ inherited them from C. And you can cause a segfault with C++ without even calling any function at all Every language has its advantages and disadvantages. If you learn to use the former and avoid the latter the results will be great. And it's very easy to do that with PHP5. In all PHP projects that were sinking deep and fast and that I had to take over and rescue the string comparison issues and the other stuff you mentioned never were the reason for that.

Sounds good, using a SOA is a good idea because you could implement the back end in anything and simply and have a client already complete.

I for one would not consider PHP but only because I use .NET every day so I would naturally choose it, but saying that for something like this I probably would choose PHP to be more portable.

You going open source with it, when you get started?

Good luck with that project! Hope we will see results

About the PHP topic. I have worked with it before, and I found it horrible to use and look at. Still, the framework we used enforced PHP, so what the heck.
Well, I wouldn't say it totally sucks. It gets the job done.
But to say that it has "just as many problems" as other languages is just wrong. It has more. A lot more.
Every "why X sucks" list you find will have most on PHP (which is sometimes beaten by JS). And that is not a coincidence, not a sign of irrational hate and not because "web development is new" (most other web languages do not have that many perceived issues). The arguments are mostly true and undeniable, just as those against other languages.
But that doesn't make PHP broken. It still works, and if you're used to avoiding the pitfalls, why not?

Btw... Every language sucks! So all is well

Personally, I prefer to use languages that offer static or at least strong typing over any languages that do not offer that.
Try input validation in JS... "parseInt()", "typeOf() == "Number"", etc.
The horror!
Unfortunately, most languages do not even offer static typing.
There are a number of meta languages like Haxe, though, that can be compiled to JS (among others).
So you can write nicely typed code, which then compiles into (very performant, as the typing made sure you do not need to check types yourself) JS or whatever else is supported.

TheSHEEEP wrote: Personally, I prefer to use languages that offer static or at least strong typing over any languages that do not offer that.
Try input validation in JS... "parseInt()", "typeOf() == "Number"", etc.
The horror!

I think "oh ffs" on a regular basis because of that

That's like validating user input with atoi() in C++. The static typing doesn't help it a bit. Wrong tools for the job

bstone wrote:That's like validating user input with atoi() in C++. The static typing doesn't help it a bit. Wrong tools for the job

Of course static typing helps. It will force you to make sure the functions that rely on user input receive only the correct type - because the type is enforced with the parameters for the function, there's no other way to call it.
You still have to convert a string to number (when taking input from a TextField), sure, but that way you can at least ensure it is done correctly. Also, it has to be done anyway, some languages just hide it away from you.

No, you didn't get my point. I'm all for static typing. It's just that validating user input with "typeof() == 'Number'" is not the right example.

Those issues that CABAListic brought up, before he decided to moderate his post, are just things you need to know if you want to be a good PHP developer.
I don't need to visit phpsucks.com to learn that. :p
I know all of them, as a matter of fact.

Yes, sometimes PHP is too close to the metal (C in this case), but that's the price you oftentimes pay for getting raw performance.
If you are careful, and use a recent version of PHP, crashes related to that rarely happens (if it happens at all).

If you think that it is a shock to me, then you'd be surprised. It is basic prerequisites for being a PHP expert: know your language, know it well.

So you tried Yii framework?
A good choice. One of the best PHP frameworks IMO, but then I am biased: I am a moderator at the Yii forum.
I am considering using Symfony2, which is probably the most modern (and beautifully written) PHP framework.
In fact, I think it's difficult to find more beautiful code than Symfony and Doctrine code - check it out at Github if you're curious.
Looking at it with a C/C++ programmer's sense of aesthetics, of course.

I am painfully aware that there exists a lot of ugly PHP code out there, but that doesn't mean that PHP is ugly 'per se'. It really isn't.

And, yup: the project of which we speak will be open source (MIT, of course) - and is intended to be rock solid and as beautiful as it can get, both in terms of code and performance/memory footprint.
Feel free to join the team when the project is ready.

Symfony 2 is a great choice.

There is a ogre3d tag btw on stack overflow

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/ogre3d