Look what I found: GPLed Map-editor

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:10 pm

http://quest-ed.sourceforge.net/

Hmm maybe it has been mentioned already?

Anyways, this a free (GPL) alternative to GTK-radiant, which sadly seems to have been abandoned by its original creators.
But since it is quite feature complete, I guess it could be easily turned into a great OGRE mapeditor (by a coder; that excludes me

).

Together with the (former) BSP compiler that is in ther works (see other thread) it would probably work really well.

Edit: maybe this would be something for the YAKE guys?

maxxoros · Post by **maxxoros** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:19 am

I know about this program for a long time...Not so impressed...\
For making BSP, you should check the WIKI for Artist and content, there is a great one

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:22 am

Not sure which programm from the Wiki you mean, but Quark is windows only, and has a very unintuitive gui. And GTK-Radiant has licencing issues that make it impossible to use for most projects.

And using a full modelling application for mapping is not a good idea, since they arn't designed for those tasks.

maxxoros · Post by **maxxoros** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:27 pm

Ah, not a 3D designer ... so you do not understand the speed of making a level when we do in prof program like max, maya or soft image
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GTK-Radiant or Quark have too simple modelling tool and view port is so terrible...
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should chek for max, maya ... and you will see ... free maya personal learning at http://www.alias.com/eng/index.shtml

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:00 pm

Hmmm, I don't really want to argue with you, but actually I am (at least as far as you can say about yourself) a skilled 3D Modeler.

And I strongly disagree.

For making Quake like levels (!) an application like GTK-Radiant is the ideal solution (that's why it was made by id in the first place :p ).

Making BSP compatible meshes is already easier in a mapping-tool, but very doable in a Modeling application (mostly due to the convex brushes, and the automatic snap to grid feature); like you said. But appling leveltextures is almost 100% easier and faster, since modeling applications are build for complex UVed textures, and not simple square "slap on with an offset" textures that are used for mapping.
Last but not least entities and static meshes and all the other stuff that makes a level can be also applied easily in a application designed for that task!

Of course if you are used to a modeling application you might be faster at first, but just because you have to learn the interface and the useage of a mapping tool (which is quite different from max or maya). But once you get used to it it is unbeatable by a general moddeling application that is ment for completely different tasks.

/rant end

maxxoros · Post by **maxxoros** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:50 pm

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If you refuse to use max or maya as a level making tool, so Quark or gtk radiant still not a good choice...maybe you do not know this
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http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax
gmax and tempest... can not say gtk radiant is better

...man...check this
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also check this greate one
http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Bsp_making

BlasterN · Post by **BlasterN** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:18 pm

Maybe you are interested in these posts.

http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... 3442#83442
yake a look to that. I'm working in that now i have beta 4.5 i will release the package in 2-3 days, i'm waiting sf.net

take a look to this post too, discuss the pros & cons of BSP
http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8153

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:27 pm

@ BlasterN: Most of those pro and cons are about the actual bsp filetype, which is questionable. But the general type of system is still a good idea for Quake like maps, I think.

The Worldcraft2orge tool is a really nice thing to have (thanks for coding it), but as with GTK-radiant there will be licencing issues if I am not completly mistaken. Also a editor with source available would be much nicer for comatibility and adding features.

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@ maxxoros:

I tried using Gmax and tempest for mapping when it came out back in the Quake3 days, and while it certainly is a nice tool for mapping (it is actually quite similar to gtk radiant in many ways), it lacks updates and is intentionally crippeled

Again it also isn't open-source, so it can not be modified to work great with Ogre (only by 'coding around' it) and there are also licencing issues if I remember the enduser licence of Gmax right.

Last but not least, there is a reason why the mapping community for Quake3 never really used Gmax+tempest and worked with GTK-Radiant even though gmax was getting a lot of PR and support back then

maxxoros · Post by **maxxoros** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:42 pm

okie....Julius, got what you said
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But imagine...If you just design a map for quake, your tool is ok...but...how about a project with many thing to composite...uhm... a large city...forest, jungle, field and interior, exterior....without using reference system, a unique unit for all scene...these thing can't be done...And a lot of format game must be used but...must have the same scale and unit....can't do this with using so much level editor program

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Julius · Post by **Julius** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:27 pm

Agreed

But not everyone is working on a MMORPG

Actually for most FPS games a mapping tool like GTK-radiant is the perfect choice.

BlasterN · Post by **BlasterN** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:14 am

but as with GTK-radiant there will be licencing issues if I am not completly mistaken

The code GPL (i think) te program don't have any cons to use it for whatever you want. instead of hammer that can only be used to make HL based games (mods). Quark is free to use to.

The problem with BSP is the compilers not the programs.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:45 am

Actually that is a common misunderstanding, since it can't really be proven what program the .map file was made with (since it is a simple .txt renamed). So it can only be proven which bsp compiler was used.
But if you read the enduser agreement of GTK Radiant (and I bet the same thing is in the Hammer EULA too) it actually prohibits the use for different games etc.

But then again I am not an legal expert and this is just what I remember from a discussion some time ago.

There is of course Quark, but it is Windows only (doesn't work on my PC because of that) and the user interface isn't really that nice in my oppinion.

BlasterN · Post by **BlasterN** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:36 pm

Julius wrote:There is of course Quark, but it is Windows only

There are a project called CQuArk (or something similar), it's plannig to be portable. have to wait.