Health and Programming

[ricardo_arango]

Hey,

Just taking advantage of this off-topic forum, I thought I could ask you guys about how you deal health-wise with working all the time on the computer.

For example, I am starting to feel a little pain on my wrist and because of that I'm doing some stretching exercises every time I remember. I also get a lot of back pain, so I have to keep accommodating my posture.

Any of you guys have had problems because of being in the computer for long times, and how have you dealt with them? Have you had any training for that? In my university every one sits in the computer for +6 hours, so I'm sure the same problems will eventually affect us all.

I feel is such an important issue that is just not talked enough.

I Appreciate any experiences that you could share.

[xavier]

Regularly walk away from the computer.

I spend a lot of time thinking about what I am doing rather than typing, so I don't have many problems with use-related pain, myself. This is either leaning back in my chair, or thinking about something during a long walk.

[Klaim]

About the wrist pain, you certainly have your all weight on it. It's recommended by doctors to make sure you have your weight on your elbow instead of your wrist while sit on your chair.

[Evak]

I highly recommend a natural keyboard, and if you have RSI, the Smart glove is excellent. Those things combined helped my wrists no end .

I don't have to wear the glove these days, but for the best part of a year I'd get wrist ache within moments of typing at a regular keyboard.

Here's a old review, but this glove really helped me and a couple of my colegues that developed problems.

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/02q3/sma ... ove-1.html

[PolyVox]

My back is my main concern. I have had no problems so far (I'm 27) but I've never had great posture and spend most of my life on the computer.

This is in no way medical advice - but I sleep on a firm bed with a thin pillow (or even just a folded towel) because I figure that should keep me straight!

[warmi]

In my case I never had problems typing ... what kills me are my eyes.

I never had to wear glasses (used to have 20/20 vision ...not sure now ) ... but after 6-7 hours , I tend to get this pressure type of pain behind my eyes ... annoying as hell.

[ricardo_arango]

Hey, thanks for the replies.

I kind of agree with Xavier, whenever possible it's best to get up and do something else, specially walk. I think it also refreshes your brain a lot. I try to do that, but sometimes programming is just so addictive.

Evak thanks for the info on those gloves. I might buy a pair. Depends on how it progresses. I hope the exercises I'm doing will help. I also bought a mouse pad with support, and try to get my hands of the computer unless I have to type something.

[betajaen]

I take breaks from the computer every hour and a bit. Usually for me, I come up with my best programming ideas away from the computer. I used to have a major problem with my left shoulder; which was a RSI work injury. Which hurt now and again when using the keyboard. Thankfully, I quit my job and it's gone away.

However; something is wrong with my inner ear at the moment; so I have a lot of vertigo and dizziness spells. So getting away from the computer, and having my best ideas - isn't to good when I fall over.

Also; everyone is saying about natural keyboards, and gloves. I found the adjusting desk height (if you can) helps a lot too.

[warmi]

However; something is wrong with my inner ear at the moment; so I have a lot of vertigo and dizziness spells. So getting away from the computer, and having my best ideas - isn't to good when I fall over.

I don't think your inner ear problems are related to computers
Unless of course you play some crazy shit , upside down, about-to-puke ...type of games.

[betajaen]

Well it did started to appear when I first started playing Fallout3.

But I think it's part of a bigger problem. But sitting at the computer helps much more, than walking around. Even if the my heads seems to be moving into the screen when it isn't.

[ppClarity]

I used to get severe wrist pain. A lot of the things here helped, but nothing completely cured it except one thing: getting enough sleep. Yes, you really do need 6-8 every night. No, trying to "catch-up" on the weekends doesn't work too well.

[xadhoom]

A main problem when sitting at a desktop hours and hours is that the
abdominal muscle shortens over month/years (yes I´m serious).
A friend once told me that nearly every ache in the back has its origin there
because the muscles in the back have to pull harder if you want to stay
straight. So if both sides of the body "pull down" your vertebras receive
a higher pressure which may lead to herniated vertebral discs...

So one thing you (and I) can do is stretching this muscles (carefully).
Two other things I can suggest are jogging and/or swimming. Both strengths
e.g. the back!

[ajs15822]

Heh, I stay in shape while programming by doing 10 pushups, 10 sit-ups, or 10 bicep curls per compile. Besides keeping me toned, this little routine of mine gives me some motivation to code more efficiently (fewer coding mistakes = fewer compiles = less exercise punishment).

[betajaen]

I've been wanting to do that 100 push-ups program. Not for the actual exercise (although it helps), but to get into the routine of working out. If I can start enjoying it, then I'd loose some weight and become healthier.

But exercising per compile is a good idea ajs15822!

[Vectrex]

My RSI Wrist pain was mostly caused through mouse usage (AND FLASH ). So now I use an IBM 'nipple' keyboard and my pain has gone. It got so bad I had to quit my multimedia job. Don't use mice. Mice are ergonomically terrible, unless you get a true vertical mouse. Either use a trackpad/trackball or track point. Once I got used to the trackpoint I REALLY like it now, give it a chance I'll tell you now DON'T ignore this. People told me the same thing but I stupidly ignored them thinking a few stretches would help. Now I can't really use a mouse again without the pain coming back in minutes.

Back pain+Leg pain. I get pains in my legs and arse from sitting, so I have another cloned monitor setup at standing height with a high little ledge that I can sit my keyboard on. So when I feel uncomfortable I stand and program! With the trackpoint keyboard it's a 2 second maneuver to stand up.

I also have a heavy weight bag that I do some exercises with while compiling/thinking

[jacmoe]

Heh, I stay in shape while programming by doing 10 pushups, 10 sit-ups, or 10 bicep curls per compile. Besides keeping me toned, this little routine of mine gives me some motivation to code more efficiently (fewer coding mistakes = fewer compiles = less exercise punishment).

Wow, excellent method! Hones your body and your code at the same time!

[Nauk]

Good topic, I am 37, average time I spend sitting at the computer a day is probably 12 hours rather more, that 7 days a week, which I think is extreme but not uncommon. The problems I had and have to do deal with are just like many others of you have: migranes, backpain, stomach problems problems coming from the odd manual bearing, hand arm problems, blood circulation problems, high trombosis risk.

What I did about it and for me it reduced the physical stress to almost non existant anymore:

The right choice of seat
I have tried countless office chairs and health-balls before this and they never really worked out longer than 2 or 3 weeks. So I built myself a chair taking a very comfortable citroen car-seat, I figured they are ergonomically made for long journeys and come with a good neck-support. The chair is constructed now in a way that I am almost laying, resting my feet higher up on a box, almost like an astronaut, also easing the bloodflow through the body. Nearly laying removes a lot of stress from the backspine.

Handposition
The mousepad is resting on a small pillar, same height level as the chairs seat on a soft padded pillow. Meaning when working with the mouse my hand-balm is the lowest point and the weight of the arm is resting on it rather than the wrist or lower arm. Carpal-syndrome problems gone. Note I had starting wrist and arm pain before I did that.

Get up every now and then
I take hourly breaks where I do a little exercising, not much, just a minute or so, but works fine.

Movement & Fitness
I don't work out but I do try to get my daily share of movement talking a walk in the forest nearby. Also running errands by bike every now and then, letting the car stand adds a little to it.

When you are done working...
Everyday when I stop working, mostly before I go to bed, I spend 15 minutes exercising and stretching, mostly back and belly muscle training.

Food Quality
Some people say "you are what you eat". Since nowadays most food people commonly buy is preprocessed and loaded with chemical preservatives, taste enhancers and whatnot which mostly turn out to be very unhealthy if you take the effort to lookup on them, I radically started to change my kitchen and food supply to organic & local grown products, I bake my own bread (1 hour effort every 2 weeks) and make my own ham (1 hour effort per month). You might wonder what this has to do with "sitting in front of the computer" problems. Since I do that my overal share of energy has increased a great deal, I do feel a lot better and not to mention quality food just tastes way more intense.

That whole setup including the exercises reduced most of my computer caused health problems to a minimum, close to non-existant.

[towcar]

Try googling Ergonomics, That was something I learned alot about in one of my classes, Ergonomics is matching people with their work place or something, somehow that definition became a 5 days of lessons on proper head spot and work area. Anyway it Might be handy, but I didn't pay much attention

Or you could get a special health keyboard

[eugen]

Aside a few stomach problems which i think are more related to stress then staying at the computer i have no visible issue after spending between 8-12 hours working at the computer every day for the last 10-12 years. I do listen to alot of music however while working and from time to time even move with the rithm
I also like to spin around with the chair while at work and balance the chair a little back and forth at home.
I belive we can support and surpass most of the problems and even adjust without thinking as long as we can look at things in the most optimistic way and have fun with what we're doing. Sure, getting up and walking in the room from time to time is also beneficial

[reptor]

For 3D modellers a 3D navigation device is very beneficial. I would even say it is a must for anyone who works as a 3D modeller.

Examples at http://www.3dconnexion.com/

I have worked as a CAD engineer and after I started using that kind of device, the pain I had in my mouse-hand's wrist reduced a lot, to the point that I think it didn't exist anymore.

Now I will not work without it.

The device is also good when zooming and moving 2D surfaces. In CAD we have the technical drawings which we need to zoom in and out and also move them around on the screen. A 3D navigation device is great also for that kind of task.

It seems that Adobe Photoshop is on the list of supported programs of 3dconnexion.

Their SDK is free. So you could support their 3D navigation devices in your programs. Blender is also supported by them so open-source solutions are also possible. I recall their license said pretty much that source code must not be open, but there have been changes to that I think, or some "work-around" which makes it possible to use it also in open-source programs.

[sinbad]

As someone who has suffered a lot with first RSI and then back problems, I have a few tips.

For RSI, I recommend low-profile (scissor-switch) keyboards of any type to reduce impact stress on your fingers, and respecting all the ergonomic tips you get about monitor height, chair / desk relationships etc.

For backs, I strongly suggest getting regular exercise. I injured my upper back recently mostly because I was spending too much time in a stress-hunch (even though my workspace was ergonomic) and not getting enough normal exercise (working from home has disadvantages, you don't get out as much). I now try to take a brisk 30-60 minute walk every day and it's helping a lot. Also a break every hour to just move about is good.

Also, I would not advise using multiple monitors. My first back problem (4+ years ago, lower back this time) was exacerbated by a 2-monitor setup I had at work resulting in me being twisted slightly left & right whenever I was working, which over time caused me a problem with a twisted vertebrae. I would now never use 2 monitors, I'd go for a good quality single instead.

Most of all, don't make the mistake I did and get sucked in to working longer and longer hours, and having that 'just one more hour' mentality because you have so much on. Make health your top priority over everything else, because if you don't, eventually something will happen that will completely screw up your work cycle anyway, along with the rest of your life. I learned this lesson the hard way, and I didn't even learn it the first couple of times with more minor injuries. It literally took being carried off in an ambulance pumped full of morphine because I couldn't move without searing agony to get the message through to me. Believe me, you don't want to let it get to that stage.

[CABAListic]

Hm, so far my only problem is that occasionally my wrist starts to hurt slightly. But it doesn't occur often, and if it does I simply transfer the mouse to my other hand so that the injured one gets some rest. Works pretty good for me, just don't try to play shooters or anything remotely similar with your other hand, because it won't work

[Vectrex]

Hm, so far my only problem is that occasionally my wrist starts to hurt slightly. But it doesn't occur often, and if it does I simply transfer the mouse to my other hand so that the injured one gets some rest. Works pretty good for me, just don't try to play shooters or anything remotely similar with your other hand, because it won't work

That's precisely what I did and it doesn't work. It just gets worse. It took me probably five years of gradually getting worse but thinking I'd be ok before I had to quit my job. If you're getting pain change the thing that gives you pain. Mice and normal keyboards are terrible.
http://www.evoluent.com - Vertical mice and reverse keypad keyboards. If you must use a mouse use vertical ones. Trackpad/trackpoint and trackballs are better.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1 ... 653,00.asp

http://www.aerobicmouse.com - fully vertical mouse.

edit: You can also get crazy vertical keyboards!
http://safetype.com/

[Vectrex]

I would now never use 2 monitors, I'd go for a good quality single instead.

You could try a setup like this
http://www.ministryoftech.com/wp-conten ... tjw2s3.jpg

[CABAListic]

My keyboard is fine, it doesn't even have a numpad. The vertical mice look interesting, but I'm not convinced. I don't rely on the mouse that much and if I do, then mostly for gaming. I just can't imagine gaming with such a mouse. But I may consider one should my current mice break up or if I face more trouble (which so far I don't, and in fact haven't switched mouse arms for several months).