Argh, I hate the job centre sometimes.

[scratchyrice]

Basically, I was supposed to start this two week gateway to work thing today, And i was really going to go in, until 2 days ago when i came down with a god-awful flu. Now because ive been ill before, I phone and they asked and they said they might have to close down my claim! Its not fair, I'm genuinely ill, Last time and this! I have an appointment at the job centre on Wednesday, And now im worried as heck that they will close it down. Just before she put the phone down, she said they can probably let this one slip.... But im still worried at the possibility that it wont. Why? Because i live at home with my dad, And hes in a rather difficult financial situation atm, So i neeed the money to pay rent! Why don't they kick chavs off, Not normal, Looking for work job seekers like me.

Has anyone else had a similar problem? What happened?

Cheers

Scratchy

[scratchyrice]

Also, Another alternative for me is to claim as "self-employed". Basically im currently developing a game, which i hope to become commercial. I spend every spare waking minute of time working on it, And i take it very seriously. However, I still need some form of income while it is in progress, And as with all things, there is no guarantee that i will get a profit at the end of it. So the question is, How do i sustain myself? Are there any benefits i can claim? Im new to this stuff, in the past i have had no problems getting jobs, But with the credit crunch all's gone to hell.

I have been looking for proper work for 7.5 months now, And there has been nothing! I've sent off countless cv's Got reply's from about 10% of them, Gone to the interviews, And no luck. A small part time job would be ideal, But i cant seem to find anything. Surely there's another person out there (on this forum, or in the game dev industry) who has or is in this problem? If so are there any solutions?

Cheers

Scratchy

[reptor]

The "problem" with these sort of systems is that they try to treat people "equally".

So you might get a feeling that you are some sort of criminal when you visit such an office.

Well, at least I felt like I was treated like I am some sort of a very dishonest person who absolutely cannot be trusted.

I think it happens really because they need to treat people "equally" so I get bunched up with those who shouldn't be trusted even though they have no evidence at all to show that I cannot be trusted. That's "equality". Someone tries to cheat, then they have to assume everyone wants to cheat. And I feel I am a very honest person so it is a bit of an insult towards me how they make it clear they can't trust me.

By the way, a good example of how inefficient their work can be. I noticed they had a form at their website into which I could enter all my work experience, you know the dates, company name, et cetera. They said at the website that the visit at the office will be quicker if I fill the online form. So I filled it. But then when I went to the office to show the actual proof, the documents which prove that I have worked there and then, the woman started to fill in exactly the same information to her computer that I had typed to the online form at their website! I was of course stunned by this and asked the woman doesn't she see the info I gave them at their website, and she says "yes but the system is made so that I have to verify the information by typing it myself". So he had to enter ALL the previous employer names, dates, etc. info, into their computer system, DESPITE OF the fact that I had done it for them the night before! OM*G!!!!! LOL! So there was no way she could just tick a checkbox to confirm that the info I gave them has now been checked to be correct from the original documents.

When she had told me she has to type it all by herself because that's how the system is designed, I suggested copy&paste and then she said that it is not possible to copy&paste in that system! This was another OM*G! LOL! but what can I do... I just sit there while she goes through the many documents and types exactly the same data which I had typed for them the day before... it's good to know my tax euros are well spent.

So after this I realized I would actually have spent less time taking care of it by not filling in the online form as the woman at the office had to do exactly the same thing anyways so there I waited for her to type it all. And the woman lost time as well, why does she have to check the data I gave them at their website when she always needs to fill it all by herself? She too ends up using more time if I have filled in the form at their website.

Hopefully there is more to it which I don't see which makes it useful, otherwise it is just a horrible waste of time and money to let their customers to fill in the online form.

[scratchyrice]

Indeed. To them its just a job, They don't really care about unemployed people like us, and that's the problem. I'm just hoping that I can talk my way out of this one, But if I cant I don't know what I'm going to do. There are literally no jobs where I live atm.

Cheers

Scratchy

[betajaen]

Indeed. To them its just a job, They don't really care about unemployed people like us, and that's the problem. I'm just hoping that I can talk my way out of this one, But if I cant I don't know what I'm going to do. There are literally no jobs where I live atm.

Job centre sounds British; where in the UK are you scratchyrice?

[scratchyrice]

Essex - Colchester area.

Cheers

Scratchy

[betajaen]

Wales is just as bad, if not worse. I would take bets that "Chav" culture originated from my home town, and the area I live in is miles from nowhere with really bad roads. Swansea is the nearest "city" where there is culture, and Cardiff which is 90 miles away from takes 3 hours by car. Jobs if they exist are rare.

I'm currently unemployed as well, I resigned from my job a year ago wanting to pursue a career in 3D graphics/physics. Getting a job in that in the whole of Wales is zero; a few universities and games companies may have a position - but you have to have "experience", which isn't possible. Thankfully the World is a lot larger than Wales, and it has presented me with a few opportunities to pay the bills and I haven't made a trip to the JobCentre yet.

Perhaps building an on-line CV/portfolio and getting some connections may get you something.

[scratchyrice]

few opportunities to pay the bills

How exactly? Is there any small odd-jobs i would be able to do to pay the bills?

Perhaps building an on-line CV/portfolio and getting some connections may get you something.

To be frank, I don't know about wale's, but here the job centres/agencies are rubbish.
Let me tell you a little story. I have a friend who has an A level, at grade a in computing science. Now even he admitted this is stupid, but after all that he still does not know how to install windows. Then there's me, I do not have any a level's, But i can install any OS, Program in c++, Build machines, the list goes on. What really gets to me tho, As yourself, Who are the agencies going to pick? Me or My friend(This is hyperthetical). My friend, Because he has an a level. But if he does not know his way around computers, What good could he be in the real job? I think tbh, Employers need to get their head around things and realise that HR people are useless, Because all they know is HR, Not what the job actually requires. Just like recently it really annoyed me how someone else got a data entry job over me, Even tho the key point in the job description was "Must be computer literate". This other guy had a GCSE in business studies, so he was the choice! It makes no sence.

Cheers

Scratchy

[betajaen]

Oh, I agree.

I remember applying for a job a few years back. Now; I have a GNVQ, HND, a Degree in computing and was starting another degree in Physics (which I'm still on now), with tons of experience - I've been working with computers since I was seven, able to program when I was eight. I can pick up things extremely quickly. So I'm quite a catch. I was turned down on this job; not because of I had less experience - I actually had more than the other guy but I didn't know "Active Directory"; a Microsoft product that wouldn't be taught in schools or universities, and something that I could learn if needed. I should point out that Active Directory wasn't on the job application, or mentioned in the interview. I've been through plenty of interviews (or not even offered one) for applying jobs. So your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't.

But I would get some sort of qualification Scratchy; these days they just make your CV more pretty, but it gets a foot in the front door.

[scratchyrice]

I am planning on doing a btec next year in computing, Then go on to university to do computer science. Ive just got to fill the year.

Cheers

Scratchy

[scratchyrice]

I've been working with computers since I was seven, able to program when I was eight. I can pick up things extremely quickly

Sounds like me, Apart from the eight part, It was more like 9 for me. Its a pity tho that employers do not take notice of what actually matters, Like the ability to carry out the task given to the employee.

Cheers

Scratchy

[Kojack]

I had to use wikipedia:

Chav, Chava or Charva is a derogatory term applied to certain young people in the United Kingdom. The stereotypical image of a chav is a white aggressive teen or young adult, of working class background, who wears branded sports and casual clothing, who often fights and engages in petty criminality, and are often assumed to be unemployed or in a low paid job.

It even has a cartoon depiction of one.

In Australia we have a thing called Mutual Obligation, where you have to fulfil certain activities to get unemployment pay. The things which can count towards it are:
* Part-time paid work
* Work for the Dole
* Community Development Employment Projects
* Voluntary work
* Green Corps
* Relocation
* Approved Literacy and Numeracy Training
* Part-time study
* New Apprenticeships Access Programme
* Job Search Training
* Advanced English for Migrants Programme
* Intensive Assistance
* Jobs Pathways Programme
* Job Placement, Employment and Training programme
* Career Counselling
Work For The Dole is the main one, you can be told that you have to do it (or you can volunteer). Basically you have to work 2 days a week at an approved position, doing things like working in a charity store, environmental cleanup stuff, sorting goods for recycling, aged care, gardening, etc. Something to give back to the community in exchange for cash.

Hmm, where's the fun in being unemployed if they make you work for it?

My sisters have had to do it (and all the other crap like job hunting diaries and stuff). One got put in a salvation army charity store, the other got put in a factory which manufactured industrial rubber products. I've never received unemployment pay, so I've never had to go through it.


I've been in a few programmer interviews (as one of the interviewers). Not all employers look only at the degree on your resume. It does show what areas you have probably covered or are interested in, but it's not that reliable. I'd rather see a portfolio of work like tech demos, or just have a casual conversation with the person about various technologies to see how comfortable about it they are. Of course in these cases it was for teaching positions, so there's different requirements. By education department policy they must have equal or greater qualifications than the course they are teaching, and they have to be able to stand up in front of students and talk without being boring. Being boring is fine if you are just a full time coder.

To them its just a job, They don't really care about unemployed people like us, and that's the problem.

That's because you're not part of their monkey sphere (or Dunbar's number, for the more scientific name. No, it's nothing to do with the gameSuper Monkey ball).
For a great article on the Monkey Sphere, have a read of http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_wh ... phere.html
Very enjoyable article, and it just makes so much sense of the world. It's become my new guiding philosophy (or something like that).
The idea of a monkey sphere is that tests have shown that the number of individuals a being can deal with mentally is proportional to the size of their neocortex. This number (Dunbar's number) controls what size community a being will be comfortable in. For monkeys, it's about 50. Humans have a bigger neocortex, so it's about 150. This is the total number of people (it varies for each person of course) that can be a part of your life without becoming a meaningless statistic.

Ok, there's a point to this insane offtopic monkey rambling. The idea is that the way the job centre staff don't care about unemployed people like you is the same way that the job centre staff's bosses don't care about them, and so on, up to the government level. And it also goes the other way, the "chavs" you said should be kicked from place could be thinking that you don't care about them.
Umm, ok, sorry for all that. I mention the monkey sphere whenever I can, and this is the first time I've had an opening on the ogre forum.
I start back at work tomorrow with a brand new intake of maybe 50 students, which means my monkey sphere needs to make room for another 50 people I'm supposed to care about for the next 2 years.


Ok, I'll shut up now. Good luck with the job stuff!

[jacmoe]

Ah, the joy of teaching. Consider yourself a lucky man, Kojack.

[betajaen]

I think the MonkeySphere can easily get me out of doing things for other people now, my excuse can be "They aren't in my MonkeySphere, so I don't care about them".

Thanks Kojack!

[Kentamanos]

That was a neat link Kojack...

[Kojack]

The monkey sphere rules all!

It gives an explanation why a person can be in tears when their cat dies, but not get upset when watching a nature documentary showing a lion eat a zebra.
Or why a tv report will say something like "3 australians died in a natural disaster in africa" when actually over a hundred died, but people from the same country as you are just a tiny bit closer to your sphere, because you might have met them.
Or why most people don't spend sleepless nights worrying about the happiness of their postman. What if he's really depressed because his cat died? Did you ever consider that and go out to comfort him? Nope, he's on the outside of your monkey sphere, so your brain just classes him as "the thing that delivers letters". Once you hear that his cat died, he gets a little closer to you. Chat with him a few times and he becomes an actual person instead of a concept. But then you probably pushed somebody else out of your sphere to make room.

(Maybe I should branch this, it kind of fits in with the recent discussions on how the brain works).

[McSwan]

I would suggest that people take the speculative Monkey Sphere idea with a huge gain of salt. I think there is some truths in there, but you should follow it's own advice when things seem to simple.

ie. Human brains != "scaled up" Chimp brains http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/49868.php
Our brains chew through energy, at the expense of not being able to digest certain foods. Chimps can digest a lot more, there stomach require more power, hence less intelligence. Koalas have to eat highly poisonous eucalypt leaves, so they sit in trees being highly stupid most of the time, while our stomachs envy the koalas digestive power.

By "bigger brains" so can handle more people would mean that Whales should be able to handle 1000's of other whales in a group. I know the theory pertains only to primates, I'm just pointing out that this line of thinking is flawed.

We do live in groups of millions, not 150. If we were supposed to live in groups of 150, then we would live in groups of 150.
I find the notion of "150 people" misleading too. Even in his example, he said we got upset more with out "cat" dying. Cat != person. Can we only understand 150 "things" or people?

[jjp]

Where does the theory say something about 'bigger' brains? The idea is simply that there is a limit for the number of individuals one does care about emotionally, without additional social structures. I guess it holds true for any kind of social animal (I think the term 'monkeysphere' isn't that great). And yes, humans live in much larger societies. But that is not the point. You don't care emotionally about all the people in your society as much as you do care about the people close to you. This isn't something new. The interesting thing is that there seems to be a limit for how large the group of people who you feel close to can be and the fact that this limit is of a very similar size for most humans.

[nikki]

Life seems pretty bad.

[jjp]

Life seems pretty bad.

Why? Imagine it wouldn't be like this. Feeling pretty bad whenever e.g. you hear of someone dying you didn't know at all.. would be impractical, wouldn't it?

[McSwan]

Where does the theory say something about 'bigger' brains?

"Group size is a function of relative neocortical volume in nonhuman primates."

http://www.bbsonline.org/Preprints/OldA ... unbar.html

[nikki]

Life seems pretty bad.

Why? Imagine it wouldn't be like this. Feeling pretty bad whenever e.g. you hear of someone dying you didn't know at all.. would be impractical, wouldn't it?

No, I'm thinking about my own life.

[jjp]

Where does the theory say something about 'bigger' brains?

"Group size is a function of relative neocortical volume in nonhuman primates."

http://www.bbsonline.org/Preprints/OldA ... unbar.html

Neocortical volume != brain size

[Kojack]

We do live in groups of millions, not 150. If we were supposed to live in groups of 150, then we would live in groups of 150.

Name all 1 million people you live with, and tell me their job and hair colour.
Tell me the last time you saw each of them.
Beyond a certain number people are no longer individuals, they become a concept. If I asked you about people who you work with, you could probably visualise them all. If I ask you about everyone in the same city as you, do you visualise all 1000000+ of them? Or are they just "the million people in brisbane".

I find the notion of "150 people" misleading too. Even in his example, he said we got upset more with out "cat" dying. Cat != person. Can we only understand 150 "things" or people?

The cat was my example.
Obviously you've never had a pet. Believe it or not, but it can be upsetting when a pet dies. I didn't cry when the tsunami hit and tens of thousands of people were drowned. Sure it's a horrible tragedy, but it exists as only a concept, I don't know them all personally, and can't even accurately visualise them all standing in a group. But a pet cat you spend 15 years living with which dies a painful death from skin cancer is upsetting. Pets are part of a family.

I'm not saying that a cat is better than 10000 people, but the cat has more impact on the owner. There is no way a human could survive if every single death or sad event in the entire world had an equal effect on them as the death of a family member or loved one does. The less connected you are to someone, the less you care.
When charities make ads, they don't show you footage of 1000000 starving people in africa together, they show you 1 child close up. One child fits in your mind, it's singled out. You can see it's expression, you can remember it later. It's become more personal, closer to you. You now feel sorry for the kid. But you are ignoring the thousands of other starving kids who deserve just as much.

Long live the monkey sphere!

[scratchyrice]

Yay! A bit of luck at last. I've found a computer repair technician job, Which is temp for 3 months (May become permanent). Yes its not very good pay, especialy for a PC technician - 6.33 per hour. Its also long hours 8am-6pm/45 hours per week. Its also an hour away from where i live (Until i get my car), So i will be spending 12 hours every weekday working. However, I should stop complaining, as most people are having no luck whatsoever of getting just a job in this ressecion, Let alone one which is related to what they want to do. It is paid on a weekly basis (Awesome!), I'm actually quite looking forward to starting (If i get it).

It's with a job agency I've gotten a few jobs from before, And every time they just signed me up to the job very quickly. I like that agency, Because they give alot more people a chance at getting good jobs, for the first time. I phoned about half an hour ago to check if the vacancy was still available etc, And it is. They asked if i had any previous computer repair KNOWLAGE (Note not experience), I said yes stunned at the fact that they care about the persons knowledge, and not how big their resume is. I gave a "technical babble" speech about what i do (maintain a home network of 5, Including maintaining high spec gaming and development machines), They then asked if i did actually have any experience. Luckily i have done work experience at a computer repair store (Pay was a lot higher for people working there. As much as £60 an hour! £120 for a plain windows reinstall!), And they have given me an interview!

Any tips/advice? What should i say to prove my knowledge, and secure a place (I really want this job). Will they be interested in my website/Youtube videos showing off my engine?

Cheers

Scratchy