the arrogant european - clichee or truth?

Post by **Kencho** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:34 pm

@KungFooMasta, yes, there's pretty much tradition in Spain about running in front of bulls and torturing them. Read I'm absolutely against that kind of traditions, so I'm not particularly fond of our folklore...

Jabberwocky wrote:Sure, you have things like "traffic lights" and "speed limits", but no Spanish people actually pay any attention to them.

Hahahaha, yes, that's another story XD

gugus · Post by **gugus** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:33 pm

Jabberwocky wrote:
Sure, you have things like "traffic lights" and "speed limits", but no Spanish people actually pay any attention to them. Laughing

Hahahaha, yes, that's another story XD

When i came to US,I was a bit surprised too by the questions^^

yuriythebest · Post by **yuriythebest** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:04 pm

the movie "team america: world police" pretty much sums up how the whole world views america. That plus I feel shocked with their healthcare. having to wait 12 hours to see the doctor? wow. While I love the show ER it usually omits/sugar coats their bad healthcare.Though I once tuned in to a BBC series about doctors, dunno the name, and it was boring I tell ya. Probably because since everyone there gets decent healthcare far less health disasters happen.

Game_Ender · Post by **Game_Ender** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:52 pm

I don't think that's true at all yuriythebest. You should really back that up with some figures. Overall the US has an health case system on par with quality of the rest of the western world. We also spend more money per capita then any other country in the world (See wikipedia). Our system is not perfect but I pretty sure we have higher a quality and higher availability of care then many countries with a nationalized health care system (No I don't have figure this).

On to the anecdotes:
The last health emergency I was a part of saw the person in need picked up by an ambulance withing 10 minutes, to the hospital within another 10 minutes. They were of course immediately admitted for emergency care in the emergency room.

BigB · Post by **BigB** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:53 pm

The American Health System is pretty much messed up.
I don't live there, but i have spoke with many people from the States , and everyone says the same thing.
For example, i was told that most hospitals try to give the message that natural birth is the new way to go.
An by natural birth they mean, less exams, less follow ups on the preagnant women, only 1 Ultrasound during the entire preagnancy period.
With this they do save a lot of money, and this kind of things only happen because the health system is private, it's there to make money, and not to help people.
If the health system is so great, then please explain me this :

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/parentin ... index.html

What i don't understand is how can a country so rich as America can continue with a health system like this...

johnhpus · Post by **johnhpus** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:09 am

That plus I feel shocked with their healthcare. having to wait 12 hours to see the doctor? wow.

I don't know where you got that number, but as any sort of average it's wildly incorrect.

If you need emergency care, you can (in my area at least) see a doctor within twenty minutes or so. You can generally see a doctor immediately if your issue is life threatening, as the order is by severity/urgency. If you're at a small hospital and your problem is something they can't handle, you are flown to a larger hospital in a medically equipped helicopter. This is generally arranged very quickly.

All such emergency services are required by law to be provided to anyone who needs them. You cannot be turned away at an emergency room (no idea what other countries call them) no matter if you have insurance or any money at all. Now you will get an enormous bill if you don't have insurance, can be ruined financially, etc.

Back on topic, the "arrogant European" is the same as the "arrogant American" except that they live on different continents. People, especially the more intelligent ones such as those that frequent C++ forms, are often arrogant and it doesn't matter what country they're from. A lot of people like to diminish other people/countries/cultures/game consoles to make them feel better about themselves. It's silly and counterproductive.

Quall · Post by **Quall** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:38 am

Forget what other countries think. I am an American and even I, when thinking of the southern states, picture a stinky old guy in overalls drinking beer and marrying other members of the family.

I don't know about other countries, but America really is divided. Especially politically. I am sick of all the Democrats vs Republicans crap. Even when someone is an independent and chooses to vote based on specific issues, he has to pick a side or void voting. I hate election time. It means that every other commercial on TV will be, for example, "this candidate likes to kill puppies," if the guy is against a levy that will give government cash to the humane society.

We will be electing a new president soon, and neither has any solid plans for the future. Every debate is a wish list. The person that ends up winning is the guy (or gal) who tells you what you want to hear better. Each candidate boasts their experience with the government, and states that the other is lacking. Well, as far as I can tell, we haven't done so good picking the experienced candidate, so give me Steve Colbert.

Post by **xavier** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:51 am

Quall wrote:The person that ends up winning is the guy (or gal) who tells you what you want to hear better.

Which is why I pointed out in the Election 2008 thread that I think the best candidate for statesman is Obama. The President's job is to enforce the laws that Congress makes -- not make the laws him/her-self -- and represent the country to the rest of the world. In terms of heads of the executive branch in this country, experience can't possibly mean as much as the current crop would have you believe, because we've picked ex-big-time-wrestlers and (multiple times) popular actors to be governors...

NickM · Post by **NickM** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:34 pm

As people have already stated in this thread, there are good and bad people in every country, as individuals we can only base our feelings and opinions on experiences we've had, things we've read or been told about, it may be that those experiences have all been one sided but we would have no way of knowing unless we eventually saw the other side. I've had quite a few bad experiences with French people, for example, so my first instinct is to dislike them until they prove they aren't like the others I've met, I know it's wrong to think that way but I guess it's human nature, a type of defence mechanism.

I'm English and I know I'm not alone within my fellow countrymen, in thinking that alot of countries, especially european ones, dislike us, I'm curious to know whether anyone on here tends to dislike the English and what caused the feelings?
I'm not going to start a rant about why you should like us (the English) so please be honest, as I said, I'm just curious.

BigB · Post by **BigB** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:45 pm

I personally don't dislike the english, i do have english friends, but i dislike the general english attitude.
I'm Portuguese, and historically we Portuguese have had many problems with England, and the general idea we have about english people is that you come to Portugal like if this was a colony, drink beer, get drunk and break everything, and when the police charge over the groups of British like it happened in the Euro2004 we are accused of police brutality.
You can pretty much see what all the british newspappers were saying about our police/country regarding the Madeleine case, with all this superior attitude.
Anyways, i think what may be the cause of this feeling that you may sense from all the other european countrys is that we have the feeling that England thinks it's better than everyone else, that's abou it.
Nothing personally against english individuals, as i said i have some friends in england and they are great guys.

NickM · Post by **NickM** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:22 am

Thanks for the reply, it's very interesting to hear how we are portrayed to the world, I can relate to the things you mentioned, the everyday Englishman is often ashamed by drunk young holiday makers and football hooligans attitudes, as for our press, well don't even get me started on them, they have so much to answer for.

Again, thanks for taking the time to reply.

SiENcE · Post by **SiENcE** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:20 pm

i'm from germany. i know the histroy of my country, but i was not a part of it (too young). i think i'm a little bit arrogant/proud to be european, because in germany, it's always wrong to feel arrogant/proud to be german.
i have a good feeling about europe and the EU as an gobal player with US and RUS.
i think it's good to have more than one gobal player than only US (after the cold war).
@NickM: Especially in germany they dislike english politic, because you often compromised the european process and moreoften play the small brother of big brother (US).

cdkeito · Post by **cdkeito** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:39 pm

edit: sorry

Post by **xavier** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:43 pm

cdkeito wrote:http://richarddawkins.net/article,2345, ... -Astronomy

[moderator mode=on]
1 - Please do not just do drive-by link posting; explain in what context you intend the link to be understood

2 - As much as I love the opening line, and along with #1 above, I'm not sure what the link has to do with the topic?

Thanks

[moderator mode=off]

NickM · Post by **NickM** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:42 pm

SiENcE wrote: @NickM: Especially in germany they dislike english politic, because you often compromised the european process and moreoften play the small brother of big brother (US).

I can see your reasoning here but in my opinion there are some stupid rules that come out of the EU, one that was in the news last week is the fact that in 2010 we will have to drive around with our car headlights on 24 hours a day, I really can't see what that is supposed to achieve on bright sunny day apart from wasting energy unecessarily.
I guess we are pretty close to the US (I don't mean in distance

) but I don't really see that as a bad thing tbh.

Thanks for posting, I'm enjoying reading these opinions.

Post by **sinbad** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:04 pm

I'll add my tuppence worth - I think it's entirely natural to be a little bit proud of your country; if you're not, you're probably living in the wrong place. I don't think it's a European thing at all - I think it's a !myCountry thing.

I can sometimes find the US arrogant when going on about their democractic principles and being 'land of the free', the largest economy in the world, yadda yadda. The British don't traditionally get on with the French, although I personally have a weird middle ground where I'm technically British but live in a place with a mixture of British and French heritage. The British are as arrogant as hell because we ran half the world once and don't like anyone else to forget it, although now it's tinged with self-deprecation and irony since we know our place at the centre of the world has gone (and the US will almost certainly have to deal with that at some point too - once China takes up the baton as the richest country). And for the record, we're just as embarrassed about the behaviour of some of the more mentally challenged corners of our society when they go abroad and act like chimps.

My point is we're all proud of certain aspects of our culture & history, and that's a good thing - we all need something to identify with and feel ok about. But it can certainly sometimes come across as arrogant, which is unfortunate, but probably inevitable. I think most rational people from any country don't do it deliberately or in spite and will take the same from others in context, and with a pinch of salt. I think we can banter amiably and toss alternative views across a table without getting all bent out of shape about it. Those that genuinely believe their country is universally better (and they're present everywhere) and take extreme offense if their country is criticised, should just be ignored for the rampant bigots they are. Bias is inevitable, but reasoned and good natured debate about cultural differences is always good, I think. Certainly better than sitting in just your own country ignoring what everyone else thinks.

jjp · Post by **jjp** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:45 pm

I generally think it doesn't make sense to be proud of one's country. How could I be proud of history, culture or anything like that? I didn't create any of it. I might be proud of something I achieve personally or others achieve through my help. So I actually don't take any offense if someone rants about "my" country and I generally assume others don't take offense as well.

That doesn't mean I don't like where I live. I am used to the myriads of flaws and advantages this place has. Assuming to have been born somewhere else doesn't make sense because then there wouldn't be me but a different person.

Minthos · Post by **Minthos** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:12 pm

I'm european and I'm pretty damn arrogant.

There are a lot of stupid americans, but there are a lot of stupid europeans too. Politics seems to attract them like flies to steaming crap on both sides of the pond.

Also, clichÃ© has only one e in it.

mr. iknoweverything · Post by **mr. iknoweverything** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:47 pm

how would i know, im a stupid european.

nikki · Post by **nikki** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:03 pm

Uhh... I thought you knew everything?

beaugard · Post by **beaugard** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:37 pm

I completely agre with jjp. What is a country? A diffuse set of vaues/prejudices that I don't agree with and a border to keep people from getting in or out.

Remember, most people who are really proud of their countries (we have extreme-right nationalist in all european countries nowadays) generally didn't accomplish much on their own to be proud about